Planer/Thicknesser won't start. Assistance Required.

[Brabberic]

Hi there
This is my first post. Found this forum a couple of weeks ago and been enjoying all the usefull advice and looking at peoples' projects etc.
I'll hopefully be posting lots more in the near future about advice for my workshop and projects as well as reviewing a few of the tools I've bought. But in the meantime I need help getting my P/T to run.

I have an Electra-Beckum HC260 Planer/Thicknesser that I bought off the internet last year at a (hopefully) good price. I haven't used it much but I did have it set up and working pretty well last autumn. But it hasn't been used since.

The problem is that now it won't start up properly. When you turn it on the machine starts into life and then instantly switches off. I'm guessing theres a trip-switch/safety feature somewhere thats kicking in to turn it off. If I hold the power button down the p/t runs fine, but as soon as I release the on switch then it trips out and turns off.

Is this a common problem and is there likely to be a simple solution?

I've done some routine maintenance (liberally spraying wd40 on it) and given it a good clean etc and everything mechanical appears to be working. Cutter block, infeed rollers, drivechains and belts all seem to be turning nicely.

I'm not entirely useless at practical/mechanical repairs but am utterly clueless about electonics (as electrical faults rarely seem to be cured by the 'textbook' approach of wd40 or 'gentle persuasion' with a hammer) so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Matt

 

[OPJ]

Does it do this when set up as both and planer and as a thicknesser?

I think these machines have a safety interlock switch fitted near the area where the dust hood pivots. It may be that this has moved over time and simply needs readjusting. It's a feature that essentially means the machine cannot be started without the hood in place on the thicknesser, as it also doubles up as a guard for the cutter block when in thicknessing mode.

 

[Brabberic]

Thanks for reply.

Yeah it happens in both set ups. It runs marginally better when set as a planer, sometimes runs for as much as a few seconds before shutting off. In thicknesser mode it trips out straight away every time.

 

[Hivenhoe]

Old thread on similar subject electra-beckum-hc-260-m-t43254.html

 

[myturn]

Check the switches themselves, they can become clogged with dust and you say you've been spraying WD40 around, could just be the switch needs stripping/cleaning/replacing.

 

[Brabberic]

@OPJ

I can't see a safety interlock switch but I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking for. The dust hood rotates round pretty freely and just rests on the infeed table without engaging any locks or switches as far as I can tell.

@ myturn

I've taken the cover off the main power switch and it all looks very clean and free of dust or corrosion on any of the electrics.

@hivenhoe

Thanks for posting that thread. I'll have a go at following its advice.

 

[Brabberic]

just to clarify, I have the older hc260m rather than the newer hc260c. I think the newer model might have extra microswitches than mine doesn't.

 

[OPJ]

You may well be right about the age of your machine though, if it's blue rather than green then, regardless of the exact model number, I'd be inclined to think that these switches should be there for compliance with the EU regulations.

It's tricky to explain without a photo... And, I can't find a good one either.

In the above photo, if you look toward the left-hand end, you'll see a black box (with some white text on it) that has a line of black cable running down from it. Above this box is a round, silver 'thing'. This should rotate with the dust hood/blade guard. There should be a cove-shaped recess on one edge and a 'button' on top of the black box engages in this.

I forget when this needs to engage and it would also be worth checking the other end by removing the back cover to expose the drive belts, etc. I used to own a cheaper machine that was produced in the Far East but based on the old EB design so, it may not be identical...

 

[Brabberic]

Mine is one of the older green ones. I'll try to upload a picture of it later. I think most of the safety microswitches were added on later models.
On mine the power switch is roughly where that little black box is on your picture. There isn't anything like that black box on my router.

I had a look at the advice from that other thread about checking the motor brake, but don't think thats the problem.

I'm just hoping its not something like faulty capacitors or motor components as I haven't a clue how to fix that sort of thing.

 

[OPJ]

If it is the capacitor then, they're dead easy to replace. They're cheap to buy and you should be able to find a suitable replacement from Maplins or similar. No need to purchase direct from the manufacturer and there are only a couple of wires to connect, if I recall correctly.

Even a like-for-like motor swap is not beyond your abilities. Again, it's just reconnecting the wires. The hardest part though (ignoring the cost and initial sourcing of the motor) is handling the thing - they're the heaviest components of many machines and, more often than not, they'll be mounted below the machine...! :roll:

It doesn't sound like a 'motor' problem though, in my opinion... (touch wood!).

 

[smiler]

I've got an HC260 and know the motor will not run unless all the interlocks are made. So if you can get yours to run by holding the switch in, it sounds like it's probably the No Volt Release switch that is at fault.

It looks like someone else had the same fault a while ago, here.

If that doesn't help, to rule out the NVR it would be possible to bypass the NVR for a quick test, but please ask someone who is confident in handling electrics to do this.

For a bit of background reading check this post here. There's a nice diagram of basically how the an NVR works. The one in your machine won't be exactly the same, but the principal of getting the latching action from the push buttons is there.

 

[Brabberic]

Its been a few days since I had time to examine the machine but I had another look today. Plus finally took some photos:

The first time I tried it the machine actually ran for 5 mins without turning off, although for the first 10-15 secs the motor noise kept dipping as though it was about ready to cut out. Afterwards when I tried it it cut out as soon as I let go of the on switch.

I took the front panel of the NVR so that I could watch what happens when I turn it on. I noticed a really faint blue spark appearing -
See the arrow on the attached photo:

Its almost impossible to spot but it is there. It might be coming from one of the connections further down but it appears/reflects on the lower part of the yellow cyclindrical thingy.

Thoughts?

Matthew

 

[NetBlindPaul]

It is probably a failed contact in the nvr or, a poor connection the way I understand your problem.
In a conventional motor starter I would be looking for a fault in the "retain" control circuit as I call it.
When you push the button it makes the relay (NVR) once this closes there is a switch inside that keeps it closed.
Once the voltage fails the coil releases and the nvr opens thus stopping the machine.
IF the hold on contact in the nvr has failed then once you release the start button the motor will begin to slow.
However if you hold the start button in then the motor will run fine?
Does this describe your situation?

 

[Brabberic]

Yeah thats correct.

 

[NetBlindPaul]

OK,
Almost certainly a fault in the "hold on" circuit.
IF the machine has been correctly designed it should not be an interlock issue as if it is an interlock switch the machine should not start at all.
If you can't test out the circuit then I would look at changing the nvr switch.
I am useless looking at pics on websites, but it looks like there are only 2 off 3 core cables to the nvr assembly.
In that cse it sounds like no interlocks.
Mains in and motor out.
So unless you can get parts for the inside then a new switch it will be.
You can replace this with a starter such as this:
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/ ... index.html
Other suppliers are available and this device is not strictly suitable for use in a woodworking environment as its IP rating is insufficient.
Plus I don't like MEM starters, just a personal thing.