Planer/thicknesser changeover

[Nick Gibbs]

Any thoughts anyone on the planer/thicknesser with easiest changeover from planing to thicknessing? Is there one out there that doesn't need the table moving to thickness, or can be customised to do so? I'm fed up of the Kity I have that takes so much time to change from one operation to the other.

Cheers

Nick

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

HA I went through this. I also wanted long and cast iron beds and fence plus three knife block. Ended up with startrite sd300. Very fast change from surface planing to thicknessing. Just lift outfeed and flip over extraction port. Less than ten seconds.

 

[Jacob]

Much derided maxi 26 needed nothing to changeover, unless you want to fit extractor connectors, which took seconds.

 

[siggy_7]

I think the Sedgwick and Mortens planer/thicknessers don't require you to lift the planing beds. The vast majority have the tilt-up/lift-out style outfeed tables. A lot of the better machines are very fast to change, the Scheppach HMS260 I have is about 30s to change over but I'm not convinced the table alignment is dead on each time when changing back. This is a weakness of most designs.

 

[marcros]

I started a similar discussion on this thread that may be of interest to you Nick. planer-thicknessers-t68693.html?hilit= planer

 

[The Wood Butcher]

Hi Nick

The Hammer P/Ts are really quick, but they still require winding up and down. Much faster than the Scheppach I had before.

 

[custard]

The Felder P/Ts can have a motorised thicknesser table, not only does this speed up the changeover it also gives a thicknessing readout that's repeatable and accurate to 0.1mm. Quick change planer blades (Tersa or Felder's own system) mean you always have a sharp blade installed. The planer and thicknessing tables can be fitted with cast iron extension tables, there's zero snipe so you can cross cut to length before planing, the amount of "hollow" or concavity can be easily adjusted to your tastes when jointing edges, the planer table can swing up with the fence still attached and it swings back down in precise alignment every time.

Not cheap, but second hand options are out there.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

not to put too fine a point on this (because I really researched this before buying the startrite)....is a ten second changeover not satisfactory? Because I actually timed myself and I promise I exaggerate not. That sub ten seconds is an empirical, accurate measurement....not just an anecdote.

My first p/t was a far eastern clone...Ive seen the model loads of times, I just happened to have the RP version of it. It retails for circa £700 now. It was a 2 minute changeover job (also timed) and totally unacceptable. I had very strict criteria for focusing the decision to upgrade as follows:

3 knife block (for finish quality)
min 1.4m tables
12" planing width
cast iron fence as well as tables (for magnetic featherboards as well as the obvious benefits of cast iron)
very solid thicknessing table mechanism
most importantly.......VERY FAST CHANGEOVER

I didn't want to spend more than £1500

After a massive search sweeping the entire market I focused down on the axy brands, the jet and the RP/Startrite. The Hammer/Felder etc breeds were just too dear. As were the sedgewicks etc which I love.

The SD300 was the clear winner. Ive never regretted it...fabulous, stable, heavy, fast....absolutely love it. Setting the blades is even a doddle. Until I win the lottery I doubt I'll ever change.

 

[RogerS]

Sedgwick MB....just have to wind the thicknesser table up/down to take the dust extraction hood.

Or separates !

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

£4400 in Axy...ouch...very nice though......mind you the tables aren't very long given the price. Its still a compromise in many ways!!

 

[Eric The Viking]

Which Kity, Nick?

My little one (439) has a narrow bed (200mm/7"), but the changeover is pretty fast (basically just move the dust chute from on top to underneath or vice-versa). It takes longest to beat the hose into submission, but a length of rope with two knots in it will shortly sort that (to support the hose at the two heights hanging from the roof).

I don't think it's ten secs, but it's not far off. The only issue is you can't keep the thicknesser table setting, as the dust chute sits on it.

 

[Steve Maskery]

It's the winding down of the thicknesser table on the Kity that is the tedious part. On the 636/637, anyway. I've vowed that when I get my aircraft hangar of a workshop I shall go for separates.
S

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

There can be no doubt that if space wasn't a premium...separates would be the ideal (& budget I guess). The space thing is probably why here on a small overcrowded island we generally favour p/t's whereas in the US they generally favour separates....money...and space

 

[custard]

The space thing is probably why here on a small overcrowded island we generally favour p/t's whereas in the US they generally favour separates....money...and space

I've spent quite a lot of time in the US and have met many American woodworkers, both amateur and professional. True, there are some exceptional workshops, but for the majority the reality isn't that different from over here. One aspect we in the UK often overlook is just how punishing the weather can be in many parts of the US, consequently the family garage often has to have room to house one or two cars. Another thing is that US houses pretty much occupy the entire plot, so there's often little spare room for a decent shed. Many American woodworkers have no option but to work in a cellar, where low ceilings and access problems can severely restrict the equipment options.

In fact given the space constraints I was often surprised at how many American woodworkers insisted on having a table saw, even when they were predominantly hand tool workers. I'd often say that when I was in a similar position space wise in the UK I prioritised my space around a bandsaw and a planer/thicknesser, in other words I used equipment to help with the two most arduous jobs...rip cuts and planing to dimension...and gave the remaining space over to benches, a permanent sharpening station, and timber storage. They'd kind of get the logic, but I sensed that in the US woodworking culture if you haven't got a table saw then you're not a proper woodworker!

 

[Nick Gibbs]

not to put too fine a point on this (because I really researched this before buying the startrite) 3 knife block (for finish quality)
min 1.4m tables
12" planing width
cast iron fence as well as tables (for magnetic featherboards as well as the obvious benefits of cast iron)
very solid thicknessing table mechanism
most importantly.......VERY FAST CHANGEOVER
I didn't want to spend more than £1500

Love the criteria. Speed and economy are most important for me. I am in the workshop quite often, but not really pushing the machines, and space is an issue too. Really important I don't have to mess around with changeover, perhaps because I was brought up as a lad in a furniture factory so got used to dedicated functions. I don't need 12in width, though cast iron fence would be fabulous.

Thanks everyone for suggestions.

Nick

 

[Nick Gibbs]

Which Kity, Nick?

636. I lent my old Elektra Beckum to a friend on permanent loan because I hated the changeover, then a friend offered me the Kity on permanent loan because he wasn't using it. Now I think I know why!

 

[Nick Gibbs]

For the majority the reality isn't that different from over here. One aspect we in the UK often overlook is just how punishing the weather can be in many parts of the US, consequently the family garage often has to have room to house one or two cars. I prioritised my space around a bandsaw and a planer/thicknesser, in other words I used equipment to help with the two most arduous jobs...rip cuts and planing to dimension...and gave the remaining space over to benches, a permanent sharpening station, and timber storage. They'd kind of get the logic, but I sensed that in the US woodworking culture if you haven't got a table saw then you're not a proper woodworker!

How interesting. I've done exactly the same thing. I am writing a book for Haynes about making your own furniture, so am setting up a standard single garage workshop as an experiment in what one does and does not need. I'm not going to use a tablesaw, except for one project, I think, when I'll visit another workshop. I've been wondering if we in the UK use bandsaws more because wood was milled by sawmills, whereas in the US there is a culture of pioneer woodworking, for which the circular saw might possibly have been more readily available. I may be miles off mark. I'm quite excited by the prospect of using the planer-thicknesser bed as a cross-cut table for cutting boards to length by hand (like a hand-powered mitresaw). One becomes very inventive in a small space. I nearly discarded my p/t in favour of just a thicknesser, but am beginning to think that the overhand planer's ability to plane square and straight edges quickly might be more useful than the thicknesser's ability to size material.

Nick

 

[Sgian Dubh]

... In fact given the space constraints I was often surprised at how many American woodworkers insisted on having a table saw, even when they were predominantly hand tool workers.

... but I sensed that in the US woodworking culture if you haven't got a table saw then you're not a proper woodworker!

I too have some experience of North American woodworking practices having lived there for ten years. I'm not sure what your experience of their woodworking practices are, but mine are from working in the industry, although I suppose I picked up on a lot of how the amateur North American woodworkers operate.

I say the reason the amateurs are so fond of their contractor or cabinet saws is simply because they use them as a tool that's a substitute for other machines, eg spindle moulder, sander, single end tenoner, router, etc. They're naturally used for rip sawing (entirely guard free of course with their kickback encouraging long rip fences), and as a joint making machine (with a tenoning jig, spline cutting jig, dado blade or moulding head), pass wood at an angle across the saw blade to create profiles, replace the sawblade with sanding discs for sanding tasks, set up cross-cut sleds for square and angled cross cutting and for box-lock joinery, etc. There are things they do with their contractor's or cabinet saw that I'll not describe that would scare the willie off a British woodworker. The amateur woodworker in North America has learnt many of these practices from the professionals, and magazines such as Fine Woodworking do a fine job of encouraging inventive table saw usage through the articles they publish,as well as YouTube footage of fellow North Americans doing some very, er, shall we say, interesting operations on their saws. Slainte.

 

[OPJ]

The changeover time on my AW106PT has often been fast (lift both beds up and swing the hood up and over - sometimes you need to wind the thicknessing bed down first) but I found that leaving it 'open' with the in- and outfeed tables up takes up a lot of space... So I took them off and now store them elsewhere, after spying a CT150 (Axminster 6in planer) locally on eBay. Both are on wheels and the planer tucks in beside my mitre saw station. You know what my workshop's like, Nick, and I don't think I'll ever have 'enough' space but it's great to be able to move from one machine to the next. With a P/T, I was also having to rotate the machine 180° with each changeover so that the extraction port was pointing at my extractor.

I can't remember the last time I planed anything wider than 6in... A lot of imported hardwoods seem to be 'narrow' widths (compared to what you find at some of the English sawmills) and we can always rip and rejoin wide stuff when we need to (bandsaws are perfect for this, with their narrow kerf).

 

[Nick Gibbs]

Both are on wheels and the planer tucks in beside my mitre saw station. You know what my workshop's like, Nick, and I don't think I'll ever have 'enough' space but it's great to be able to move from one machine to the next. With a P/T, I was also having to rotate the machine 180° with each changeover so that the extraction port was pointing at my extractor. I can't remember the last time I planed anything wider than 6in... A lot of imported hardwoods seem to be 'narrow' widths (compared to what you find at some of the English sawmills) and we can always rip and rejoin wide stuff when we need to (bandsaws are perfect for this, with their narrow kerf).

Very interesting. You see, I'm thinking of buying a small planer for squaring stuff up, and keeping my Delta thicknesser and building them into some clever sort of station. Most squaring operations are less than 6in wide, as you suggest, and the most time-consuming thicknessing operations are wider than 6in, so there's a lot of sense in having two machines. Those pieces that are over 6in wide that need thicknessing often don't need squaring (or can be done easily by hand, or on edge overhand on the planer), so there is a discontinuity in the planer/thicknesser in small workshops. Space is so important in small workshops, and having seen a few, I'm convinced that the quality of work in such restricted workshops is compromised by having too much equipment.

Nick