Plane mouth fettling

[Benchwayze]

This is food from woodwork heaven to me. It's also the reason I like the 'Bedrock' design in metal planes.
I have to admit I'd like to find a genuine, old Bedrock, at a boot sale, but we can all dream. I settled for LN's bevel-up smoother which does the trick for me. But of course, 'It's not about the tools'; it's about the way you use 'em.
Even my bog standard Stanley block plane will take shavings, right up until I close the mouth completely. Strangely enough, that's when no shavings pass through. I wonder why? Could it be I gagged it? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Plane sailing folks :mrgreen:

 

[G S Haydon]

John,

I would love to give a bedrock type of plane a go. The most attractive thing seems to be you can adjust the frog even more easily than a Bailey type. Might of got that wrong though, like I said, I've never used one.

 

[Jacob]

John,

I would love to give a bedrock type of plane a go. The most attractive thing seems to be you can adjust the frog even more easily than a Bailey type. Might of got that wrong though, like I said, I've never used one.

Yes it is easier, but only just, which presumably is why they weren't highly favoured - not much gain for the extra cost. Much better is the one piece body and fixed frog (as with the low angle planes) with adjustable sole plate to the mouth.
Stanley got this right with their new (high angle) SW planes but unfortunately spoiled the overall effect by going for a norris adjuster instead of what they did best of all - namely the Bailey pattern of adjustment. So near but yet so far! But they do work extremely well and the mouth adjustment is perfect.

PS the prob with Stanley's norris adjuster is not only that it's inherently inferior to the original but (on my example at least) the machining is very sloppy and irritating. It's still a very good plane though.

 

[Benchwayze]

I don't often agree with Jacob.
But I do think an adjustable mouth would have been the way to go with any metal bench plane. Yet, that would have probably put even the cheapest plane into a higher price bracket.

The main advantage of a Bedrock as far as I can see, is the ability to advance the frog, in situ, and still have maximum support under the blade; which you don't get with a normal frog. It's supposed to reduce chatter, but I always found that word to be almost as volatile as 'sharpening' on this forum!

I like a heavier plane too, and the one 'Bedrock' design I have (a Clifton 5 and 1/2) is ideal in this respect. Pity you live a bit far away GS, or you'd be welcome to try the Clifton.

And it is about the tools Jacob. Without them we can't do anything, and the better tools we have, the better we can utilise our personal skills. Few of us; if any, neglect what tools we have, but the old saying about a sow's ear fits in nicely I'd say. That is, if we want to do good work. :wink:

 

[Dangermouse]

For ease of mouth adjustment, you cant beat the new Stanley Premium planes. Fixed frog and mouth adjustment like a block plane, the front shoe moves. Can be adjusted in 3 seconds.

 

[Vann]

And it is about the tools...

This is the "Hand Tools" section, so it sure is about the tools :!:

There's always the "General Woodworking" section for those who think we spend to long polishing... (hammer)

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Benchwayze]

And it is about the tools...

This is the "Hand Tools" section, so it sure is about the tools :!:


Cheers, Vann.

Not according to Jacob's signature Vann. (Although I do understand what he is getting at.) :wink:

 

[Jacob]

For ease of mouth adjustment, you cant beat the new Stanley Premium planes. Fixed frog and mouth adjustment like a block plane, the front shoe moves. Can be adjusted in 3 seconds.

Yes definitely. If they'd also got the blade adjustment right it would be everybody's favourite plane by now.

 

[David C]

Since the water was muddied by our friend, my observation about chipbreakers could be re stated like this;

If the chipbreaker and front edge of throat are properly shaped, the C/B can be set as close to the blade edge as you like, without causing choking. (Down to as little as 0.004").

Mr. Haydon seems to have demonstrated this.

I enjoyed the photos of shaving thicknesses.

In my scheme of things, 0.006" off endgrain is a fairly heavy cut and 0.07mm from long grain a more comfortable one.

Best wishes,
David Charlesworth

 

[Corneel]

That still leaves the issue of using both chipbreaker AND tight mouth to control tearout. With the chipbreaker set at 0.008" to 0.012" you won't find too many pieces of wood that can't be planed without tearout troubles.

Pulling back the frog so the iron sits flush with the sole has 3 advantages:
- The most stable bedding of the iron.
- No potential clogging troubles at all.
- You can grind a small secondairy bevel on the front of the chipbreaker of about 70 degrees, improving the function of the chipbreaker.

Advantages of setting the chipbreaker close to the edge AND setting a tight mouth?

 

[David C]

Corneel,

Everything you say is true (for thin blades only). I think you will find that thick replacement irons get no support from sole. IBC are 3.6 mm thick.

I am making a DIFFERENT POINT about chipbreaker setting and choking.

David

 

[G S Haydon]

Pity you live a bit far away GS, or you'd be welcome to try the Clifton.


John that's a really kind offer. I must try and get to a show where I could try some of the modern planes out. We are spoiled for choice these days!

That Stanley plane is an interesting one. On the face of it the plane seems ideal. I have read a few blog articles about it and they all complain about the adjustment, however a month or so down the road the user seems fine with the new set up. If I were to splash out it would be a hard choice between a quangsheng #4 and the stanley.

Corneel, "Advantages of setting the chipbreaker close to the edge AND setting a tight mouth?" it is my assumption that the close mouth prevents the shavings lifting so abruptly over a longer distance. Sorry for the bad explanation! I'm actually praying for some wild and nasty timber. The only timber we use which sometimes has bad tear out is sapele and we don't use so much of it these days. Cant believe I'm praying for tricky timber

 

[Peter Sefton]

You are more than welcome to come to my Open Day (two weeks today) and try out my Clifton, Quangsheng and Veritas they all have a different feel and the choice is a personal one. I will be demonstrating sharpening and hand planing and kit is available for people to try.

Cheers Peter

 

[G S Haydon]

You are more than welcome to come to my Open Day (two weeks today) and try out my Clifton, Quangsheng and Veritas they all have a different feel and the choice is a personal one. I will be demonstrating sharpening and hand planing and kit is available for people to try.

Cheers Peter

But Peter, that's outside Devon and I haven't updated my passport . Sounds like a great day out though for those wanting to try before they buy and thank you for the kind offer.

Graham

 

[Peter Sefton]

You are more than welcome to come to my Open Day (two weeks today) and try out my Clifton, Quangsheng and Veritas they all have a different feel and the choice is a personal one. I will be demonstrating sharpening and hand planing and kit is available for people to try.

Cheers Peter

But Peter, that's outside Devon and I haven't updated my passport . Sounds like a great day out though for those wanting to try before they buy and thank you for the kind offer.

Graham

No problem, if the weather is a wonderful as it has been today I may well renew my passport and head down to glorious Devon myself.

Peter

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I don't know what the weather was in Devon, but Cornwall was excrement. Stove is lit.

 

[G S Haydon]

The stove has been lit too many times this summer philip :-(

Just took a look at your site Peter, very comprehensive

 

[Jacob]

....
If the chipbreaker and front edge of throat are properly shaped, the C/B can be set as close to the blade edge as you like, without causing choking. (Down to as little as 0.004").......

Another truism. Hence if you have choking then the chipbreaker and front edge of throat are not properly shaped - nothing to do with the tightness of the mouth. Obvious innit?

My favourite truism is the advice given by a mother to her dear departing son - "never do anything you would be ashamed of - then you need never be ashamed of anything you have done". See what I mean? Perhaps not. :roll:
If you say them in a sufficiently portentous voice, they sound meaningful.

 

[David C]

This seems to be a direct contradiction of what you said on page 3.

 

[bugbear]

Advantages of setting the chipbreaker close to the edge AND setting a tight mouth?

Streamlined cars go faster.
Powerful cars go faster.

Streamlined powerful cars go fastest of all.

BugBear (cyclist)