Plane blade

[bobscarle]

I need some help setting up a new No5 plane. Let me get 2 things straight first. 1, I normally use power tools for most jobs but recently I have developed a need to do more work by hand (hence the new plane). 2, I am a real cheapskate so any comments like "what do you expect for that money" will find me nodding and agreeing.

I bought an Axminster Jack plane (for the princely sum of £22) basically to see if I could learn to use it. I removed the blade and adjusted the frog as best as I could. I then tried to get the blade back. Problem number 1. The cap iron is not square. Now this may be a stupid question, but, does that matter? I can position it square with the blade edge but the sides run out.

OK. I position the cap iron about 1mm from the edge and insert it into the body. I put the lever cap back on and sight down the sole to adjust the blade. Problem number 2. I cannot retract the blade. The adjusting screw bottoms out before the blade disappears into the sole. From my dim and distant past (school days) I remember adjusting a blade so the it just reappears from the sole. I cannot do this.

My questions are I guess,
Do I have a faulty plane, in which case I should send it back?
Should I grind the blade down thereby shortening it so that it will retract? I don't have a grinder so this may be a little difficult.
Should I buy a new cap iron and blade?
Should I not be so tight and buy a better plane, thereby risking an already shaky bank balance and cries of "How Much"?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Bob

 

[MikeW]

Hi Bob,

Did the blade retract fully when you first bought it--was it protruding already?

Is the cap iron screw is fully tightened on the blade before installing it back into the plane? If the cap iron isn't square, then you must either be canting it to one side to make the 1 mm even across it. If this is how it is installed, there is the possibility that the adjustment lever is not fully seating in the slot on the cap iron. That would affect its ability to adjust.

My advice is to move the cap iron further away from the edge [just so it is fully on the iron even though it is at an angle across the iron] and square to the sides of the iron and try it again--make sure to tighten the cap iron screw down fully.

Cap irons can be squared up, but you need to be careful in doing so. I suspect you will find the blade may not be the best of steel. If you are not being demanding of it, that may not matter.

For the same amount of money or so, you should be able to find a vintage Record or Stanley which will be a better plane--it's not always about spending gobs of money. But they were made better than the current offerings, which seem to be more a source of frustration for the owners than a solution to woodworking.

Take care, Mike

 

[sparky]

hey bob

i wanted to chime in here an throw my two cents worth into the discussion.

i'm not sure i can help with the plane issue but i wanted to let you know that when i started woodworking with hand tools i too went cheap.
it was a HUGE MISTAKE. i don't want to put you down or tell you what to do but i found that having a tool is not more important than having a good tool. :roll: in other words the cheap stuff convinced me that it is better to scrimp and save what little money i have to get the stuff that works well rather than just getting a tool that barely works.
if i was more skilled i might be able to fettle with a cheap plane to get it to work but because i'm not skilled i needed the good or decent stuff all-the-more.

sorry for the rant...i just needed to get that off my chest. just the other day i was chatting in another thread about how i need to get a spokeshave. it can be frustrating :evil:

again sorry for the rant and i don't mean to boss anyone around but as an unexperienced newbie the good old stuff or the good (and expensive :shock: ) new stuff really is the only way to go IMHO

sparky

 

[JesseM]

Is the bevel of the blade pointing up or down? It should be pointing down and the cap iron should be up. No offense intended if you knew this already, but being new to planes its an easy mistake to make and it will make the blade protrude more through the mouth than it was designed to do.

Buying lower quality tools is a road I'm sure we have all gone done at some point. While not necessarily a bad thing don't let it sour you on planing. Cause the nicer planes including vintage planes really do work a lot better.

Good luck!

 

[aldel]

I think the answer may possibly in the note that you positioned the frog.
Too far farward or back and you will get difficulties with the adjuster. Start off with the frog positioned so that its front edge is more or less level with the rear edge of the mouth with the blade adjuster set to about the middle of its travel. Drop the blade plus cap iron in with the adjuster lever set into the slot in the cap iron and then check the blade position in the mouth. Now finally adjust the frog for correct blade position and your adjustment lever should be fine. The frog must be fixed square to the mouth or you will have difficulties with lateral blade adjustment and the cap iron.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Should I grind the blade down thereby shortening it so that it will retract?

:shock: Don't do that :shock:

The depth of cut is controlled by the adjusting knob, which engages with the 'Y' lever, which engages with the slot in the cap iron. Sounds to me like you might have moved the frog too far forward - move it back a bit and see what difference that makes.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

PS another thought - is the 'Y' lever engaged properly with the groove in the adjusting knob? Maybe you didn't assemble it properly when you put it all back?

 

[bobscarle]

Thanks for the responses

The frog is set level with the opening of the mouth which is where I believe it should be. It was originally positioned too far forward and I thought that this would be the problem. I have moved it back. The "Y" lever looks to be engaged properly in the adjusting knob and in the cap iron. The bevel on the blade is down and the cap iron is screwed tightly to it.

I should have said "Should I grind the cap iron" and not the blade as it is the distance between the slot in the cap iron and its leading edge that appears to be the problem. I am thinking that maybe it is incorrect from the manufacturer and therefore should be returned.

Yes, I know I should not have gone cheap, but I wanted to find out more.

Bob

 

[Paul Chapman]

I should have said "Should I grind the cap iron" and not the blade as it is the distance between the slot in the cap iron and its leading edge that appears to be the problem. I am thinking that maybe it is incorrect from the manufacturer and therefore should be returned.

I'd send it back, Bob. The fit of the cap iron near to the sharp edge of the blade is crucial in the plane cutting properly, so if you start grinding that down to shorten it you will probably make it worse.

Buy something better :wink:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[woodbloke]

Bob - agree with Paul here, the cap iron is critical and should fit squarely to the cutter. If the plane is new then simply send the whole thing back - a phone call to Axminster will usually resolve a technical issue, I've found them to be very good at these sort of issues, but if you want to play around with it the complete plane will probably need a good fettle which will make it work a lot better anyway - Rob

 

[Paul Chapman]

Another option, Bob, if you think you might want to get into hand tools and you can afford to keep it as well as buying something better, is to turn it into a scrub plane. I have a few planes that don't perform very well as ordinary planes but I've modified them to work as scrub planes. A "proper" scrub plane will cost you a lot of money, but if you fiddle about a bit with the one you've got, you could have yourself a scrub for £22 - not bad :wink:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[sparky]

i have always wondered about the idea of turning a jack into a scrub. :-k like i said earlier i too have a cheap #5 that i use mainly for the roughest of work.
so is there a way to do this well...that is make a decent scrub. isn't there a reason that a scrub is so narrow and wouldn't a jack (even with a cambered blade) be one heck of a workout as a scrub... ](*,)

for some reason the whole idea seems a bit far-fetched. let me know if i'm wrong cause i would love to put my cheap jack to some productive use. :-s

sparky

 

[Paul Chapman]

i have always wondered about the idea of turning a jack into a scrub. :-k like i said earlier i too have a cheap #5 that i use mainly for the roughest of work.
so is there a way to do this well...that is make a decent scrub. isn't there a reason that a scrub is so narrow and wouldn't a jack (even with a cambered blade) be one heck of a workout as a scrub... ](*,)

for some reason the whole idea seems a bit far-fetched. let me know if i'm wrong cause i would love to put my cheap jack to some productive use. :-s

Hi Sparky,

I don't have a powered planer, so I've been looking at ways to make planing sawn hard woods a bit easier. A plane set up for normal use is just no good - it's not really suited for the purpose and is just too much hard work.

My first scrub plane was a small (about the size of a #3) plane that I bought from Alf. It started off as a heap of rust which Alf cleaned up and modified by grinding the single iron to a steep radius. Here are a couple of pictures of it, the first next to a #3 and the next showing the components

It works really well and I use it mainly at an angle of about 45 degrees across the grain. However, following some helpful comments from Marc in Luxembourg and Wiley Horne in the USA about the benefits of longer scrub-type planes, I decided to have a go at modifying some longer planes.

Since buying my Clifton bench planes my older Records have been a bit idle, so I decided to grind the blades on the #5.5 and #7 to about a 3.5" radius. The mouths of the planes had been opened up previously when I had fitted thicker blades and cap irons, so they were already well suited to passing thicker shavings. Anyway, they work really well. I tend to use the shorter plane across the grain for removing any really high spots and then the longer planes along the length of the wood. They have turned a previously tedious task into something almost enjoyable. The fact that the blade is heavily cambered means that you are removing relatively thin strips (albeit quite thick in depth) of wood so that it's not really hard work. In fact, how much hard work it is depends entirely on how deep you make the shavings - it's all under your control.

As I now have several planes with cambered blades, I've treated myself to a Veritas Mk 2 honing guide with cambered roller assembly and that makes honing the blades a doddle.

Give it a go, Sparky

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[woodbloke]

Paul - I thought the MK XXXX11.5 or whatever would have done a better job....you could have sharpened all the cambered blades at once then :lol: - Rob

 

[Paul Chapman]

Paul - I thought the MK XXXX11.5 or whatever would have done a better job....you could have sharpened all the cambered blades at once then :lol:

Yes, bit of a pipper, the MK XXXX11.5 came out two days after I bought my Mk 2 :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Alf]

I tend to use the shorter plane across the grain for removing any really high spots and then the longer planes along the length of the wood. <snip> The fact that the blade is heavily cambered means that you are removing relatively thin strips (albeit quite thick in depth) of wood so that it's not really hard work.

Heavily cambered iron in longer plane used along the grain? Good lord, he's invented the jack plane! :shock: :wink: :lol:

Cheers, Alf

Trying not to get into the whenissascrubnottascrub debate again - and probably failing.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Good lord, he's invented the jack plane! :shock: :wink: :lol:

Well, someone had to - shall I patent it :lol: :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[sparky]

thanks paul

now the next question from the neanderthal newbie...what is the best way to camber a blade that much. the blade that i have in my #5 is an A2 replacement from lee valley but i don't have anything other than the typical 'side-clamping honing guide'. is it worth getting the MKII with the cambered roller. :-k i was thinking about the MKII as my next honing guide but right now i would need to find a reason to spend the money on that rather than some tool that i might need (like a spokeshave :tool: )

also :roll: how can i flatten the bottom. i tried this once and i made things much worse ](*,) in fact now the bottom of this plane is more suited to hollowing out chair seats than flattening boards #-o (a bit of an exaggeration)

thanks for the help...its great to find uses for tools that i thought were complete junk \/

sparky

 

[Paul Chapman]

I wouldn't worry too much about flattening the sole, Sparky. For scrub-type work the sort of precision you need for fine work isn't really necessary. You are more concerned with getting rough, sawn wood to a more presentable state so that your better planes can work more effectively.

As for the camber, the side-clamping Eclipse-type of jig is quite good because it has a fairly narrow wheel and you can produce a camber by pressing harder on the edges of the blade as you hone. On mine I used a high speed grinder and home-made MDF jig to get the basic camber - I don't normally use this grinder because it's quite easy to burn the blades, so you have to be careful. It just speeds the job up a bit to grind the camber first. Just use what you have. I only bought the Veritas Mk 2 and cambered roller because it was my ccasion4: a few days ago and I had some money as presents

If you still have the original old blade from the #5, I would use that. It will probably be easier to hone than an A2 blade. I've gone back to my old Record blades for scrub use - you don't need anything too special.

Let's know how you get on.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[woodbloke]

Paul - ccasion5: plenty of this I hope. Congratulations...we know someone else who had a birthday a few days ago :wink: - Rob

 

[Paul Chapman]

Thanks, Rob. We went to a nice Italian restaurant so I sampled their Grappa

Cheers :wink:

Paul