Pencil and paper

[wizer]

Mike, apologies for not commenting on your drawing. I guess we have got caught up with this business of what constitutes design within this section of the forum. FWIW I do appreciate hand drawings. Your sketch looks great. I admire the skill involved in quickly sketching something up with measurements and then taking that sketch and breathing life into it in wood.

Personally for me I was not taught technical drawing and I struggle with it. I like to draw everything to scale, including joinery, in SU. I can play around with a design making ten of hundred of minor changes here and there, altering dimensions, etc and never having to use an eraser or start again.

My good friend MarkW draws out his projects with Pencil and paper that include all the detail you'd ever need, in different sectional views. His drawings look the business. But I wouldn't know where to start. It would take me much longer to use Pencil and Paper. I know that is hard to believe, but it's true. I can work a PC much easier than I can a pencil, it's just the way I have grown up. I am a NERD

oh and I believe it's Fora

 

[Shultzy]

I agree that pencil and paper are probably quicker to design a project. Having completed the design on paper, a CAD program comes into its own by being able to produce an accurate drawing that can be adjusted quickly to reflect timber sizes available. I've found SU invaluable when designing my workbench especially when calculating the position of the drawer slides.

 

[Mr T]

hi

When I mentioned the number of SU threads on this forum I was not making a criticism of the forum. It was intended to point out that trying to get the tool to do what you want can become more of a consideration than the job you are trying to do. eg struggling to align the legs on a table SU rather than thinking about the proportions of the piece, hence people asking more questions about SU than proportion.

By the way I liked your drawing Mike, I thought "what a brilliant idea, why didn't I think of that". As you say the glass may be difficult.

Chris

 

[Shultzy]

I hate to be picky Mike but the measurement at the bottom and the top of the cupboards is the same but the drawing shows the top sits inside the bottom section.

 

[matt]

I hate to be picky Mike but the measurement at the bottom and the top of the cupboards is the same but the drawing shows the top sits inside the bottom section.

I thnk Mike takes a very relaxed approach to his design sketches* (sketch being the operative word). Note the "+" sign against the last "500"...

(*Hope I'm not doing Mike a disservice).

 

[Shrubby]

Sketchup is a design tool - this is the ideal place to discuss it.
Mike, I like your design (Lewis Carroll meets Dali ?)
It looks a challenge with lots of curves in 3 dimensions ! Entirely do-able in a small workshop though - look at some Art nouveau pieces (Guimard ,van de Velde etc)
Matt

 

[xraymtb]

I agree that pencil and paper are probably quicker to design a project. Having completed the design on paper, a CAD program comes into its own by being able to produce an accurate drawing that can be adjusted quickly to reflect timber sizes available. I've found SU invaluable when designing my workbench especially when calculating the position of the drawer slides.

For me, pencil and paper is the quickest way to quickly get an idea out of my head and into a format that I won't forget. I also find it easier to deal with organic shapes and curves (although a lot of my design involves square, chunkier furniture).

Where SU/CAD comes in, for me, is in identifying dimensions, working out joinery and seeing how a finished piece will look in an environment.

An unfinished example would be...

When it is finally finished, I can see just how a piece will look in that environment much better than I could with pencil and paper.

 

[MikeG.]

Shultzy,

I like picky, don't worry!!!

The upper over-all dimension is of the complete (pre-melting) square dresser. The lower is, as Matt suggests, 500+ to allow for a spillage of melted wood (!!!.........doesn't that sound fun?). Dimensions with a piece like this are only important on the square half (left hand side) and the right hand half will go where it goes once I see where the ash comes out of the formers after steaming.

I wouldn't do anything much more than this sketch with a traditional piece of furniture. Matt is dead right........I take a very loose approach.

Incidentally, if anyone breathes a word of this to my wife the project will be binned!!! She is expecting a traditional Welsh dresser, albeit in ash. I wont be starting this one for a while yet.........

Shrubby, I'll have a look at your references.

Mike

 

[SketchUp Guru]

In the few American forums I frequent, design seems to be a subject that people like to discuss. Here I have noticed that it's not such a hot topic.

I guess you're right.

 

[Chris Knight]

When the Design forum was set up, it was always envisaged that people would use it for discussing both Sketchup/CAD and designs per se. Forum proliferation is not a good thing in the eyes of the admin/mods here because the resulting fragmentation is seen as detrimental to both the reading of posts and the moderation/upkeep of the place.

It would help if people were a bit more thoughtful in their choice of thread titles and better disciplined at keeping on topic - just consider the topics already covered in this one thread!

If folk were simply to preface Sketchup thread titles with say "SU" and general design questions with say "GD" it could help others select what they want to read. If comments are sought on a design then say so, thus Mike Garnham could have written "GD - Dali cabinet - comments requested" in a separate thread!

 

[MikeG.]

I consider my knuckles gently rapped! I wont do it again, sir, honest. It wasn't me anyway.........a big boy did it and ran away.........

It just seemed that a thread with a title like Pencil and Paper ought to have something in pencil on paper within it!!

Mike

 

[wizer]

I don't think it's a case of wrist slapping Mike. Chris was just pointing out that sometimes users don't think about the finer organisational details of a forum when they post. I am guilty of it, sometimes you just want to post and don't consider how that thread will show up in a search. Sometimes threads wonder off topic, just like a conversation in the pub. There's no solution. It's just the norm.

In the few American forums I frequent, design seems to be a subject that people like to discuss. Here I have noticed that it's not such a hot topic.

I guess you're right.

Yeh, strange isn't it. I was listening to WoodTalkOnline today and the way Americans look at the hobby is completely different. I think that's why PopWood and FWW are considered better publications. I like it, but most of us Brits are stuck in our ways.

 

[MikeG.]

Tom,

Without wishing to take this thread even further off topic...........you say that Americans look at the hobby quite differently from us. In what way?

Mike

 

[wizer]

It's hard to explain (for me). For starters, there are a lot more Americans doing woodwork than there are Brits. It seems like most blokes outside the big cities have a workshop of some sort. Whereas here, I don't know any woodworkers outside these forums. With a much bigger, open community, the whole feel of their hobby seems to take a different angle. They seem to be a little more philosophical about it. There also seems to be a renaissance in the US woodworking market. Whereas here, I'd say it was a little slower. I am a big fan of The Wood Whisperer, which I'm sure you'll find bizarre Mike. It's an online woodworking show/blog. If you have some time, go and watch a few episodes. It's not to everyone's taste. Maybe it's because I grew up watching American films and TV shows.

 

[MikeG.]

I've watched the Wood Whisperer a bit.......helpful with a couple of things, particularly when I first got my bandsaw.

The problem with all American woodworking film/ video is that they all seem to have workshops the size of Texas, and every piece of machinery ever invented......and I can't ever get to see them use a hand-tool. I'm sure they must, but they don't seem to show it very often!

Mike

 

[wizer]

Yes I think that's it. The whole scene, including their vast workshops, is bigger.

There is a hand tool scene over there (Bridge City, Lie Nielson, Veritas, Blum, Hock etc). But we tend to see the power tools more.

Maybe it's just the they are a bunch of johnny foreigners, what what. :wink:

 

[tnimble]

Not wanting to get further off topic. But I also like the wood whisperer and WTO a lot (I find MBWSa bit uninteresting lately) the only greaf I have with it is that the episode frequency is very low (he posted a lot more in te beginning). His life webcam in the shop is a great idea if not only the're wan't that time difference.

I do see relatively a lot of hand tool usage which seems to grow since resently. Also the network shows feature a lot of handtool usage. That is not only limited to Roy Underhill but also David Marks and Scott Philips use handootls (the older AWS seasons seem to have more hand tooluage though) I've never seen Norm as I'm informed he uses power tools exclusively. I only have seen a few episodes of the AWS variant the Britisch Woodshop with that balt guy, he seems to be power tools only.

 

[Lord Nibbo]

I've never seen Norm as I'm informed he uses power tools exclusively.

Well 99% of the time but not exclusively. I've seen him pick up a block plane once or twice and I've seen him with a hammer in his hand :lol:

and he's got one of these hanging up in his workshop

:lol:

 

[tnimble]

:lol: Nice one

 

[SketchUp Guru]

I'm saving for the Chevy 283 V-8 powered version.