Passing Cyclists in UK with a car Genuine help question
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Jacob
What goes around comes around.
But some people do if they deem the road unsafe, mainly kids, and everybody sensibly turns a blind eye.
It is worrying; as we see from this thread there are a lot of confused and bad tempered drivers, not to mention the thought of having Deema behind you, photographing your bottom, in between frantically flipping through the Highway Code trying to work out how to overtake you! Thank god his wife is driving!
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Homeless Squirrel
Established Member
I like how they have rewritten the highway code without actually reading or understanding it!
Braking distances.HGV's which are now LGV's need more than twice the distance of a car to stop yet now expected to stop on a Gnats testicle if anything happens in front of them! "Have they suddenly found magic devices?"
Braking distances.HGV's which are now LGV's need more than twice the distance of a car to stop yet now expected to stop on a Gnats testicle if anything happens in front of them! "Have they suddenly found magic devices?"
A bit off topic, but, IMO you can’t pick and choose what laws you want to comply with. The answer for a cyclist who doesn’t feel the road is safe to ride on is to get off, and walk with the bike on the footpath legally. A few more minutes getting to their destination shouldn’t be a concern and they need to have more patience. Risking injury to people walking on the footpath due to a cyclists haste and impatience to get somewhere isn’t reasonable or fair. You can’t for instance always determine what physical or mental challenges a footpath user might have, you can’t anticipate what they might do, or how to pass them safely on a bike.But some people do if they deem the road unsafe, mainly kids, and everybody sensibly turns a blind eye.
It is worrying; as we see from this thread there are a lot of confused and bad tempered drivers, not to mention the thought of having Deema behind you, photographing your bottom, in between frantically flipping through the Highway Code trying to work out how to overtake you! Thank god his wife is driving!
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Agent_zed
Established Member
already comfirmed that certain people on here don't think the rules apply to everyone and that cyclists can do anything they want with no regard for other road users, whether legal or not apparently.
Seems people don't want to acknowledge the guidance for cyclists including 'Allow faster moving vehicles to overtake where safe to do so (Rule 72)' but are happy to quote all of the rules for cars.
Everyone has a duty of care when on or near the roads. the problem occurs when you have inconsiderate drivers and inconsiderate cyclists and I don't think you will ever get rid of either sadly.
And yet there are many paths with signs that show that it is a shared path by pedestrians and cyclists.
Nail
Established Member
I am confused but more confused at the bad tempered drivers you’re referring to. I’ve not seen any evidence of it. You also mentioned rage a few posts back. I’ve not seen any of that either.But some people do if they deem the road unsafe, mainly kids, and everybody sensibly turns a blind eye.
It is worrying; as we see from this thread there are a lot of confused and bad tempered drivers, not to mention the thought of having Deema behind you, photographing your bottom, in between frantically flipping through the Highway Code trying to work out how to overtake you! Thank god his wife is driving!
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Getting a bit repetitive this, but I didn't say that.
Also to ride centre lane if necessary, to prevent overtaking, if there is not enough room, as discussed above several times.
This thread is now going around in circles.
" and that cyclists can do anything they want with no regard for other road users, whether legal or not apparently. "
There are thousands upon thousands upon thousands of vids on you tube showing bad to dangerous driving, and yet only a handful of vids showing cyclists breaking the laws of the road, mainly nipping through red lights, usually when there is nothing coming the other way.
So yes I agree that some, a small minority of cyclists break the laws, but this percentage in comparison to other road users, mainly in cars is so small its pretty much meaningless.
And of course those killed by cyclist is also proportionally small, maybe one or two per year, in comparison to 5 each and every day by motorists, and thats killed, the injury rate from minor to very serious is considerably higher.
And yet some choose to overlook these statistics and rant and rave about a few cyclists nipping through a red light, or as you say 'cycling on the pavement' which I have also explained might be illegal on paper, but the police AND government have chosen to overlook these minor infractions if the rider is doing so in a considerate manner.
Five people, five human beings with families and their lives snuffed out by motorists each and every day, not to mention those left with life changing injuries.
And some of you here have the AUDACITY to rant and rave about cyclists.
Were cyclists killing and maiming multiple people every day, cycling would be completely banned.
Accidents are caused by motorists due to a range of factors, and impatience is one of the main ones.
There are thousands upon thousands upon thousands of vids on you tube showing bad to dangerous driving, and yet only a handful of vids showing cyclists breaking the laws of the road, mainly nipping through red lights, usually when there is nothing coming the other way.
So yes I agree that some, a small minority of cyclists break the laws, but this percentage in comparison to other road users, mainly in cars is so small its pretty much meaningless.
And of course those killed by cyclist is also proportionally small, maybe one or two per year, in comparison to 5 each and every day by motorists, and thats killed, the injury rate from minor to very serious is considerably higher.
And yet some choose to overlook these statistics and rant and rave about a few cyclists nipping through a red light, or as you say 'cycling on the pavement' which I have also explained might be illegal on paper, but the police AND government have chosen to overlook these minor infractions if the rider is doing so in a considerate manner.
Five people, five human beings with families and their lives snuffed out by motorists each and every day, not to mention those left with life changing injuries.
And some of you here have the AUDACITY to rant and rave about cyclists.
Were cyclists killing and maiming multiple people every day, cycling would be completely banned.
Accidents are caused by motorists due to a range of factors, and impatience is one of the main ones.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
"Whilst it is quite rare for pedestrians to be killed or seriously injured as a result of a cyclist dangerous driving – according to a parliamentary report published in 2020, there were only five reported pedestrian deaths involving a bicycle in 2019 as opposed to the 48 cyclists and 305 pedestrians killed by cars"
"1,558 an estimated 1,558 reported road deaths in 2021, a decrease of 11% from pre-pandemic levels (2019) a rate of 5.2 fatalities per billion vehicle miles in 2021, a higher rate compared with 2019 and a lower rate compared with 2020."
Tris
What am I doing here?
Reading this thread reminded me of this:
Not all laws are enforced equally and not all laws/regulations are known widely. The fact that some people avoid being arrested for murdering someone does grant the right to murder in law. However there are times when murder is considered acceptable such as in self defence and the same applies to cycling on a pavement. You are not permitted to cycle on a footpath but can with the appropriate mitigation. The fact that the police address only a fraction of minor crimes also contributes to the lack of prosecution for pavement cycling, though it does happen.- Im not trolling you Paul - Im just confirming what the law says about this.
Oh yes we can, and i do REGULARLY. in fact its the safest place given drivers kill five people every single day.
But yes indeedy, cyclists can legally cycle on the pavement area.
I have cycled numerous times past beat policemen both on foot and passing in their cars. At no time have I been stopped and challenged that I was breaking the law.
Why do you think that is ?.
If the law is broken or infringed upon, it is the legal duty for the police to challenge that person, and they do.
Many people claim to know the laws. When clearly they do not.
A could of weeks ago, i rode to the supermarket, and on that journey it involved crossing at a toucan crossing. I waited, along with another cyclist, and a couple of pedestrians.
Crossing light came on and we all dutifully crossed.
As I got to the other side, the leading car that had stopped and was close to the kerb rolled down his window to challenge me for crossing there, telling me in a loud and confident manner that I was not allowed to cross on this type of crossing.
I politely told him not only was I allowed to do it, but there was a bicycle symbol, next to the pedestrian symbol showing that bikes can use it.
But he vigorously shook his head and insisted I was in the wrong. I told him plainly that I allowed to use it, and this was confirmed int he highway code. He disagreed strongly, shaking his head telling me that the highway code said no such thing.
I KNOW the highway code concerning cycling, and do swot up on these things. its in section 25 under crossings if you are interested.
Now clearly he was uninformed, and was making a complete fool of himself claiming he knew the code, when the point is he didn't. I only wish i had a copy to hand. Maybe I should start carrying photocopies
But from experience, even showing proof to these people, they wouldn't believe it or more likely would ignore the facts, and believe wholeheartedly that it is their opinion on their interpretation of the rules than matter more than the rules themselves.
Now back to the cycling on the pavement thing.
If a cyclist believes strongly that his/her life is in danger on a road, they can legally cycle on the pavement, but must do so in a safe manner. So a little over walking speed, maybe 7 or 8mph, taking care and consideration of those around you.
Obviously someone riding quickly is not allowed. but with due care and attention there is no problem.
And thats really what it is all about - Due care and attention of other users.
Now when I have to cycle on the road, and most are 2 lane, with one lane taken up by parked cars, i must ride in the primary position, close to the white dividing line. The law and code tell me to do this because that is the safest position for me to ride in.
But I know at my some 15/16 mph that im going to get a build up of traffic behind me, so when i think it safe, or feel that the build up had gotten quite long, I will pull right in and bump up onto the pavement and allow that traffic to clear.
Im not doing that for the benefit of the drivers, who might need to get to their destination 15 seconds quicker, but I do so because in my 3 decades of being a road user I have witnessed countless, i repeat countless times impatient drivers have taken on dangerous maneuvers, which could put me at risk in order to gain those extra precious seconds off their journey.
There is a specious argument that footpaths away from a road are fair game but that in my opinion is gaming the law. Many people do cycle on footpaths and that is fine but it doesn’t mean it is actually legal.
You are permitted to use a toucan crossing but not a pelican crossing. Again the majority of people, including the driver you mention, probably have no idea there is a difference and again it is highly unlikely you would be called out for it by a police officer. The only people likely to are knobheads who are trying to show a wrong committed by a cyclist to justify the wrong committed by drivers every day. Who can say they never exceed the speed limit? That act alone increases the risk to vulnerable road users every minute of the day.
Agent_zed
Established Member
did you think everyone was going to come to an agreement?
Now your just being silly. Imagine comparing murder to someone cycling slowly along a pavement.
You think so?
You have immediately put your own bias on it by making it "slowly" cycling. That might be you but is not everyone. It is the problem with any debate of this type as people only see their specific use case and can't understand why their supposed safe action is not generally permitted. As always it is the arschlochs that are regulated against. Regrettably there are too many humans that can not be trusted to put other ahead of their own convenience.
558 pedestrians were killed by cars on pavements between 2015 and 2018. Would that have been acceptable if the drivers had been driving slowly?
There wouldn't be any deaths then
redefined_cycles
Established Member
The wobble mentioned above. Other than avoiding potholes (which most experienced cyclists tend to spot earlier than needing to wobble) I do this all the time. Nothing too drastic or exaggerated but just enough that any sleepy drivers might spot me.
Started doing this many years ago after having been knocked over (he avoided squishing me by a hairs length) whilst going through a cross roads - my right of way but the oncoming driver who was turning right in my path - whilst going to work 14 miles away in 2013.
Theory/teaching behind the wobble is summat learnt from an advanced motorbiker (well, he'd taken the advanced safety lessons) that we're not as obvious to (sleepy) drivers cos of just being kinda, a dot in the distance just moving forwards. When we undertake the slight wobble, that dot moves sideways and therefore noted by (said, sleepy) driver.
I think I mentioned at the start of the thread (many moons ago?) that I also always tend to wear high vis (not officially, but brighter garments) as much as poss. Once I get some punishment passes or close passes due to folk that don't know any better. I employ the strategy of riding further out in the road - but still in my lane.
Reason for this is that it's obviously (or, possibly, but I'd rather not risk it) a lane that's frequented by the low of exp or unempathetic. Once the road is clear/wide enough again I get back towards the kerb (but not too close).
Ever since my bus driving days - one has alot of time to reflect during long distance routes etc - I philosophised (sorry) the slogan: did the grumpy bus driver make the grumpy passenger or was it the other way round. Concluded that it was a reciprocating (sorry) relationship and one makes the other, if you let it/em. I left before I became I too became a grumpy, ignorant rude driver...
Try to follow this same rule of thumb on the road. I give em plenty of room and if I need to drive a bit closer then I drive at a snails pace. When cycling (long distance commutes, which were 40 milers for about 5 years) I try to stand my ground as well as avoiding any super fast roads where idiotic drivers congregate! These aren't too many thankfully, but I'd never drive through/around Keighley after some exp!!
I also don't use them idiotic cycle lanes, especially the ones where they require you to stop every few meters to get across the side roads!! Who the heck thinks of these stupid ideas... Oh, and if the cycle lane is as wide as wide handlebars, then I just assume it's for walkers and ensure to ride away from it!!
Started doing this many years ago after having been knocked over (he avoided squishing me by a hairs length) whilst going through a cross roads - my right of way but the oncoming driver who was turning right in my path - whilst going to work 14 miles away in 2013.
Theory/teaching behind the wobble is summat learnt from an advanced motorbiker (well, he'd taken the advanced safety lessons) that we're not as obvious to (sleepy) drivers cos of just being kinda, a dot in the distance just moving forwards. When we undertake the slight wobble, that dot moves sideways and therefore noted by (said, sleepy) driver.
I think I mentioned at the start of the thread (many moons ago?) that I also always tend to wear high vis (not officially, but brighter garments) as much as poss. Once I get some punishment passes or close passes due to folk that don't know any better. I employ the strategy of riding further out in the road - but still in my lane.
Reason for this is that it's obviously (or, possibly, but I'd rather not risk it) a lane that's frequented by the low of exp or unempathetic. Once the road is clear/wide enough again I get back towards the kerb (but not too close).
Ever since my bus driving days - one has alot of time to reflect during long distance routes etc - I philosophised (sorry) the slogan: did the grumpy bus driver make the grumpy passenger or was it the other way round. Concluded that it was a reciprocating (sorry) relationship and one makes the other, if you let it/em. I left before I became I too became a grumpy, ignorant rude driver...
Try to follow this same rule of thumb on the road. I give em plenty of room and if I need to drive a bit closer then I drive at a snails pace. When cycling (long distance commutes, which were 40 milers for about 5 years) I try to stand my ground as well as avoiding any super fast roads where idiotic drivers congregate! These aren't too many thankfully, but I'd never drive through/around Keighley after some exp!!
I also don't use them idiotic cycle lanes, especially the ones where they require you to stop every few meters to get across the side roads!! Who the heck thinks of these stupid ideas... Oh, and if the cycle lane is as wide as wide handlebars, then I just assume it's for walkers and ensure to ride away from it!!
You make my point for me…
SamL
Established Member
Be a cyclist or a road runner for a short amount of time and the empathy comes on pretty quick about how kindly to drive past. Such a shame England doesn't have the cycle lanes that seem prevalent in almost all European countries, such a joy and pleasure.
Homeless Squirrel
Established Member
Obviously you haven't seen some of the "Dilbert's" around London for one Like other day had some Rear end wipe come flying through us on an "illegally" electrically powered cycle nie on 30mph well over 20 weaving in and out felt the draft as went past me and if i'd moved a ft would have had in my back.
"They have overpowered conversion motors shops are doing twice the rated allowed power and don't have to pedal at all some have been lifted in London now and bikes crushed"
Him and others race along pavement with no thought for anyone or anyone coming out of shops as close to shop fronts esp.
Pedestrian crossings are take life in hands as come close to being hit myself three times one got a good poke in ribs for their effort as i was almost on pavement when they rode between me and pavement and others have been hit one an elderly lady and perp didn't stop plus we have three close by that have been killed over last few years.
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