Painting vices...

[woden]

... no, not a post on morality or original sin or something.

I've got a Record 112 engineer's vice and a 6" cross vice that I want to repaint as they're quite old and rusty. Instead of slapping on whatever comes to hand I want to coat them properly so that future rusticles are kept at bay for as long as possible.

Of course there's a price restriction so I'm not looking to use anything overly expensive like epoxy. I just want to use reasonably decent primer/paints, etc. that aren't too pricey as these items are going to get a right few knocks in years to come anyway. So far, for bits of metal in the garage, I've just been using off-the-shelf Delux Metal primer and Weathershield gloss. But is there a primer and paint combo - at not too much greater cost - that forumites have found to be more durable and tougher when it comes to protecting metal on machines and tools?

They say that a zinc-enhanced primer is best as this acts a bit like galvanising on the metal. Anyone know of any good ones? Maybe the Delux one I've been using contains zinc, I'm just not sure!?

The other thing I'm interested in doing to really foolproof the coating is to give each vice a wash with one of those phosphoric acid based rust converters. According to Bob Smalser's excellent articles at WKfinetools.com this stuff converts the rust into something more stable and stops further corrosion developing underneath your paint job. The stuff he uses is Jasco's Prep and Primer (I think it etches the metal as well??) but can you get it in the UK. If not, what 'converters' are available here? I've heard of stuff called Rust Mort as well.

Finally, before priming, do you remove all the phosphate coating that you can with a wire brush chucked in a drill - leaving it only in pits and crevices you can't reach - or do you leave it as a coating in itself and prime over the top of it?

Ps. this topic mightn't be in the right forum but I wasn't sure where to place it. :?

 

[Rich]

Hi Woden, are they worth getting sand blasted first and starting from scratch and then painting them in the right livery, just a suggestion.
Regards, Rich.

 

[bob_c]

Rust removers etc.. based on Phosphoric acid can usually be bought at any car part ,accessory shop.They all do the same thing.Liberon, Hammerite,Rustins etc... all do a version as do most DIY stores.

 

[OllyK]

I cleaned mine up then a coat of Hammerite red oxide followed by hammerite plain blue gloss, worked a treat

 

[paulm]

I used some car engine degreaser and a wire brush to tidy up and then brush painted some Hammerite blue, job done !

Cheers, Paul.

 

[Inspector]

On any tool that I have redone I painted with a good quality can of spray paint. The trick to getting a hard coat is to preheat the parts in an oven at it's lowest or warming setting. You want it hot to the touch (but still holdable)so that when the sprayed paint hits the metal it starts to dry right away. Apply the primer as a dust coat barely covering the metal. After it dries reheat and apply a light coat of the colour coat. Repeat once or twice more and you'll have a paint job that will will be harder than if you paint it cold. When summer rolls around putting the parts in the sun will make them hot enough and you won't have to sneak in the kitchen.

Make sure you do the painting outside just in case the solvent in the paint should light up.

Iron based parts should be primed with iron oxide type primer and the zinc chromate for aluminium parts. At least that's what I was told when they taught me to be an aircraft mechanic.

 

[Steve Maskery]

I've gone down the Hammerite route before now and been very happy with the results.
S

 

[wizer]

Sorry to chime in, Is that Hammerite Spray or Paint?

 

[woodbloke]

When I did my Record planes recently, I used some Nitromoors to strip off the old paint, then nuked them under the high pressure washer, dry thoroughly in the airing cupboard for 24hrs, degrease the cast iron with some acetone and then a couple of coats of 'Smoothrite' - Rob

 

[Anonymous]

Hammerite smooth

 

[chunkolini]

I have used 'Plasticoat' spray for this type of work, it is very hardwearing and goes on to leave a good finish, reccomended.
Chunko'.

 

[woden]

Thanks for the responses, guys.

I popped into Homebase and then Halfords today to take a look in their metal paints section. Of course, the latter only has a metal paints section so not much searching around the store required.

Halfords had the more extensive range and their prices were a bit cheaper - especially for Hamerite's Red Oxide primer. In all there were a number of different primers available in the Hamerite range. There's the Red Oxide stuff that Olly mentioned and then there's the No1 Rust Eater (if I remember correctly) that you can put onto rusted metal. The other anti-rust primer was Hamerite's Anti-Rust Primer, funnily enough. This was for putting on to bare, cleaned ferous metals and was more expensive than the Red Oxide so would that suggest it's superior?

Hamerite also do the Anti-Rust Primer as part of a package that includes Rust Eating Gel. From reading the info on the back of the latter's container it would seem to be the range's version of the rust converters I'd read about. They also offered a dilutable dip version of this stuff and a product call Kurust that was more like a primer as you paint it on and then put top coat over it instead of wiping it off and using a 'real' primer. Are any of these phosphoric acid based?

Would I be right in believing that Hamerite are sort of pointing me in the direction of Anti-Rust Primer over Red Oxide as the ultimate rust combating base coat because they actually package it and not the RO with the converter gel?

The thing I don't get about the Hamerite paints is that they do a range of primers and then when you read the info on their topcoat paints they claim that they're a primer/undercoat/topcoat all in one. So they don't need primers and yet Hamerite make primers?! Are they saying that you only need Hamerite primer when using top coat from another range? :?

And what about undercoats? Are they necessary when painting metal or can you just go straight from primer to top coat? That's what I've done previously but then I'm hardly an expert and it did mean less work. :wink:

On the Plasticote stuff that you mention Chunko there seemed to be two metal primers offered in their range in Halfords. One was just ordinary primer while the other was zinc based and more expensive. It was for rustier surfaces and that would tie in with what I'd read about zinc-enhanced primers preventing rusting by acting a bit like galvanising.

The thing I have against the Plasticoat stuff is that it's only in spray cans and I think I'd prefer to brush metal parts as spraying will surely waste a lot of paint when they're quite fiddly in shape.

Apply the primer as a dust coat barely covering the metal. After it dries reheat and apply a light coat of the colour coat. Repeat once or twice more and you'll have a paint job that will will be harder than if you paint it cold.

Do you mean there that you should alternate between the primer and top coat? Like primer/top coat then primer/top coat and so on. I take it you don't rub back with wet-or-dry when putting on such thin coats with a spray can?

As for heating, even in the highly unlikely event of getting permission to 'cook' the stuff in the oven, I doubt I'd be able to fit the Record 112 in. So I wonder would a hot air gun work instead? I'd have to be careful not to strip the paint in later coats. :shock:

 

[paulm]

Woden,

It's really not that complicated, as I said in my earlier post, degrease and wire brush, and when dry brush on a couple of coats of hammerite top coat, job done........

Cheers, Paul

 

[wizer]

Woden,

It's really not that complicated, as I said in my earlier post, degrease and wire brush, and when dry brush on a couple of coats of hammerite top coat, job done........

Cheers, Paul

This is how I plan to do it. Life's to short for priming and undercoating

 

[woden]

I know I'm being a bit anal about this but I'm sort of using this as a test run for a repaint of a Stanley 5 1/2 I'll be restoring. I'm just curious to establish the best ways of getting a tough and durable coating with regular paints at a moderate cost without going down the expensive route of epoxy paints or indulging in the time intensive option of japanning.

Being a bit of a cheapskate, as I'm not exactly flush with cash, I hate the idea of the wastage that would result in using spray cans when coating fiddly little metal parts. Plus, I'd have to do it indoors at this time of the year and so can just envisage spray paint ending up on everything. But can anyone with experience tell me if spraying is really much more expensive/wasteful than brushing out of a tin?

Although you'd need more coats - due to their thinness - can you get away with applying less paint overall when spraying? Also, unlike opening a tin of paint, does using a spray can have less or no effect on the 'lifespan' of the remaining paint inside? If so, this would mean the paint went further and could be used for other future jobs after a time when the remainder of a tin of paint would have to be binned.

This is how I plan to do it. Life's to short for priming and undercoating :wink:

I'm not sure about undercoating but I don't think that skipping the primer is advisable. Paint tends not to stick very well without it and so can chip off easily. Plus, they say good primers combat rust.


Finally, is Hammerite blue a good match for the shade Record used and on a vice which of satin or smooth would be closest to the original finish?

 

[Paul Chapman]

Rub it down well, apply Kurust to any remaining, stubborn rust, then paint with Japlac. They do an almost exact match for the old Record blue. It's always worked well for me

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Inspector]

Thanks for the responses, guys.

Apply the primer as a dust coat barely covering the metal. After it dries reheat and apply a light coat of the colour coat. Repeat once or twice more and you'll have a paint job that will will be harder than if you paint it cold.

Do you mean there that you should alternate between the primer and top coat? Like primer/top coat then primer/top coat and so on. I take it you don't rub back with wet-or-dry when putting on such thin coats with a spray can?

As for heating, even in the highly unlikely event of getting permission to 'cook' the stuff in the oven, I doubt I'd be able to fit the Record 112 in. So I wonder would a hot air gun work instead? I'd have to be careful not to strip the paint in later coats. :shock:

The purpose of the standard iron oxide / red oxide primer is to increase the ability of the paint to bond to the metal. It works best when applied very thin (dusted on with the metal barely showing through) rather than put on thickly like the top coat. The primer is soft and when put on thick doesn't hold the top coats as well. The primer is only applied to the bare metal. Not between each coat. The colour coats go on top of each other and you can "scuff" between the coats if you want to (not the primer coat) but because they're thin an abrasive pad is enough. My suggestions are meant for basic standard spray bombs, not the "fancy" ones. We don't have the same brands you do and can't say if the results will be the same with them.

If you are trying to fill all the pores and imperfections with the paint then you need to get some of the high build primers and compatible paints from the automotive suppliers but I think you'll need a spray setup for them. They would be the best people to ask about paints that can be brushed on especially if it isn't staffed by the young.

Heating could be done with a heat gun, especially for the first coat of primer followed by the paint a few minuts later, before it cools. Any additional coats you would have to be careful with. Do you have any other ways to warm the parts? Heat lamp, radiator etc.?

One other thing. Considering the waste of paint from a spray bomb to the cost difference and hassle of buying the paint brushes and solvent to clean and maintain them, you may find especially for small parts, that the spray cans might be better.