Oven doors

[srs]

Ok, odd question time something to challenge the little grey cell’s on a Tuesday morning. I have been asked to make a set of oven doors in wood; the oven is a traditional oven similar to a pizza oven. So to heat it they fill it with brush wood and small bits of wood to heat up the surrounding stone & brick then you quickly sweep it out put the food in and fit the door.
This is not going to be used on a regular basis 4 – 5 times a year, there is no problem in having to remake them every year or two but the more resilient the better as the are going to be used for live demonstrations in a kitchen that’s over 500 years old and I think the owners would not be too impressed with a large pile of charcoal where the kitchen’s once stood. To cap it off they have to be made from a native UK hardwood. I was thinking of either elm as this appears to be pretty fire retardant or oak again it should char on the outside and that is all.

Any suggestions or opinions gratefully received



Simon

 

[Chems]

Im no expert on woodwork, but I know a bit about fire.

What you want to find out is at what Temperature Pyrolisation begins in Elm and oak. I think for most woods its around 250 degrees. Pyrolisation is when a material starts to break down an gives off hot fire gases which will ignite even if there is no flame source given the right temperature and oxygen mix. Obviously you need to be very careful if your planning on treating the wood or if its been treated prior to you buying it as that will be in the wood and will release as it gets hot.

By the sounds of it its unlikely that the heat when the door is in use will be hot enough to cause any major dangers with some good Hardwood like Elm or Oak.

 

[srs]

From what I have seen the oven should not be getting anywhere near 250 I would think it will be struggling to hit 150 so I think it should be ok, they users did ask if they should wet the doors down but I could see that causing other problems.

Simon

 

[frugal]

This is not going to be used on a regular basis 4 – 5 times a year, there is no problem in having to remake them every year or two but the more resilient the better as the are going to be used for live demonstrations in a kitchen that’s over 500 years old and I think the owners would not be too impressed with a large pile of charcoal where the kitchen’s once stood. To cap it off they have to be made from a native UK hardwood. I was thinking of either elm as this appears to be pretty fire retardant or oak again it should char on the outside and that is all.

Any suggestions or opinions gratefully received

I am going to assume that this is a late 16th Century kitchen, and that you are trying to recreate an authentic door.

The best place to start would be with some historical research into how the doors were originally made and out of what woods.

I can not give you any references off of the top of my head, but have a look over here: http://livinghistory.co.uk/forums/. I am sure that someone in the 16th Century forums will be able to point at some reference material. Cooking is a big part of living history so I am sure that there is someone there who can help you out.

 

[Harbo]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that once the timber has charred it provides a protective coating from further damage(as long as it remains in place!)?

Rod

 

[Alan Smith]

Here you go, hopefully all the info you need.

http://www.traditionaloven.com/tutorials/oven_door.html

 

[woodbloke]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that once the timber has charred it provides a protective coating from further damage(as long as it remains in place!)?

Rod

Rod - I think you're right. I've seen pics somewhere of buildings gutted in fires where steel girders are twisted due to the heat but thick oak beams in the same pic have a considerable layer of charred timber around them which cuts off further oxygen and prevents burning so that the core of the beam is still sound - Rob

 

[srs]

THanks for everyone's replys, in regard to research surviving examples of 16thC oven doors are a touch rare, I would guess that once they became too chared they went into the fire, like most other bits of broken wooden item's of the era I guess, why turn down a bit of free fuel?

having spoken with those in the know, on all things historical who are willing to do a lot more reading of old texts that me the main choice seems to be elm and let it char a little, the second suggestion was to line it with a thick leather as make sure this is soaked before use. I think I will go down the elm route the smell of burning cow is not that pleasant.

If you should see on the news that Haddon Hall in Derbyshire has gone up in flames around the 7th - 8th june you will know it all went a bit Pete Tong.

Simon

 

[frugal]

THanks for everyone's replys, in regard to research surviving examples of 16thC oven doors are a touch rare, I would guess that once they became too chared they went into the fire, like most other bits of broken wooden item's of the era I guess, why turn down a bit of free fuel?

It was for this reason that the Mary Rose was such a boon to historians interested in Longbows. There are so few remaining examples as the life-cycle of most wooden goods is: Tree -> LongBow/Oven Door -> Firewood

 

[Shadowfax]

Harbo is right. The charring will take place all right but once a certain depth of charring has been achieved it will slow down considerably and act as an insulator.
The doors will not last forever but a good solid hardwood will do the trick for ages.,I should think, at those temperatures. Remember a fire in a building will reach 600-1000+ degrees C easily. Some oven!!
Cheers,

SF

 

[srs]

It was for this reason that the Mary Rose was such a boon to historians interested in Longbows. There are so few remaining examples as the life-cycle of most wooden goods is: Tree -> LongBow/Oven Door -> Firewood

funnily enough my long bow has gone that way recently, so pennies are being saved for a yew serpentine bow.

 

[tim]

If you can lose the British bit then ipe is your best option - has same fire rating as concrete.

Cheers

Tim

 

[bob_c]

Didnt the Great fire of London ,start in a bakers with a similar oven door?

 

[Smudger]

It started in a baker's shop, but there isn't much more detail than that. It seems that an apprentice failed to put out the fires properly - though I've never been sure whether that means to extinguish them or remove them, so that baking could start.

Apprentices. Huh. What a shower.

 

[Tusses]

what about apple ? dont they use that in glass blowing ?