Outhouse Project

[Jameshow]

Been a while waiting to fit the door. Beautiful Eurocell mismeasure from a window company down south. Around £1500 (or so they claimed) os the retail value but I picked it up via ebay from their store for a handsome £220 (plus petrol)
This is what that left edge looked like after pulling away the door frame. Looks like the bricks at the end of this wall have been chiselled away crudely in the past whenever they added that rotten frame.

View attachment 147183
A couple of hours with my BIL and a few drills ans packers. Just some finishing left now as about 70% of that left frame isn't secured to anything.

Probably overengineering (but isn't that why we're here ;-) ), but I plan to get the jigsaw and some wood. Remove all that foam and make 2 templates along that length. One to the left and one to the right, hopefully getting a good sketch/template of the chiselled bricks behind this expanding foam.

Sketch the template onto a length of 3 x 3 and screw that into them broken bricks at the end of that left wall. Then screw the left side of that UPVC door frame with packers into the timber. After that seal iy to the elements and make it look pretty

Would you not use a uPVC covering board to cover between the window and the door?

 

[johna.clements]

The expanding foam looks like it is holding the window to the left in place. You can see one screw into a rawl plug but most of the brick was blown off when the hole was drilled. When you remove the foam you are likely to have a problem with this window as well.

Not sure what you are planing to do with the 3 by 3.

Couldn't you screw a board to the wall between the new door frame and the wall. Then screw the new frame to the board. Then as Jameshow cover the bodge with a UPVC strip.

 

[redefined_cycles]

Yes... I could do that after but wanted to ensure I have a few more screws in the frame first. Hence the lenfyh of wood shaped to fit against the broken bricks (face on) first. Then screw the frame into that from the inside panel. Then either the UPVC board glued over or the sheet of timber I removed.

Inevitably there will be some gap filler/expanding foam used to take up any extra volume.

 

[redefined_cycles]

The expanding foam looks like it is holding the window to the left in place. You can see one screw into a rawl plug but most of the brick was blown off when the hole was drilled. When you remove the foam you are likely to have a problem with this window as well.

Not sure what you are planing to do with the 3 by 3.

Couldn't you screw a board to the wall between the new door frame and the wall. Then screw the new frame to the board. Then as Jameshow cover the bodge with a UPVC strip.

Hmmmm... That makes what my dad just told mw a bit ago. About using some adhesive type expanding foam gap filler and be done. I was thinking I would be making thw structure more solid by shaping the 3x2 and screwing it straight into the brick work that comes out on the left of the frame...

Back to the drawing boards, as I don't want to have the issue of removing that foam and making everything loose. Doesn't seem to be holding the window taut!

Really appreciate the input...

 

[redefined_cycles]

Couldn't you screw a board to the wall between the new door frame and the wall. Then screw the new frame to the board.

Yes, this is essentially what the 3x2 (or whatever is the appropriate thickness of wood to shape) is gonna be used for. Them bricks behind that foam have been chipped rather haphazardly you see.

I will try and get some more pics tonight so I can get appropriate input before goijg ahead with my plan

 

[johna.clements]

Hmmmm... That makes what my dad just told mw a bit ago. About using some adhesive type expanding foam gap filler and be done. I was thinking I would be making thw structure more solid by shaping the 3x2 and screwing it straight into the brick work that comes out on the left of the frame...

Back to the drawing boards, as I don't want to have the issue of removing that foam and making everything loose. Doesn't seem to be holding the window taut!

Really appreciate the input...

I would leave the bricks alone, just hide the mess. Scribing a 3x2 to follow the rough profile of the end of the bricks would be a "challenge". When you have made a half decent profile you will have a bit of timber that most likely can not support the door frame and has gaps around it which will require an obvious bodge rather than a hidden bodge.

A 150 or 200 wide board thin enough to go between the door frame and bricks could be screwed to the bricks with two columns of screws, two so it does not rotate. It would also close the gap on the inside.

 

[johna.clements]

Yes, this is essentially what the 3x2 (or whatever is the appropriate thickness of wood to shape) is gonna be used for. Them bricks behind that foam have been chipped rather haphazardly you see.

I will try and get some more pics tonight so I can get appropriate input before goijg ahead with my plan

What gap do you have between the frame and the bricks. It appears to be narrower at the bottom!

 

[redefined_cycles]

Thanks Johna... Yes, excellent feedback and advice that's really appreciated. Has got me to refine my plan and I'll run it by ya...

The marked 4" in marker is where I had originally planned to screw this wooden cover back. Marked where I can actually reach some brickwork behind it.

Top (I've shoved the ruler as far as I can).

Middle (the ruler is sitting flush next to the brickwork).

Bottom (don't need the ruler as this is where the frame is already screwed into them facing bricks).

Behind that wooden 180mm wide facing piece I'll screw in a couole of battons/blocks. Then once I've screwed this facing width over the gap (as seen in first pic) I'll use the block/blocks behind it - that will sit in the hollow behind - to then drill the left side of the door frame. I think I realistically only have the potential for one screw - at the widest hollow point at the top. Rest of the frame inner is taken up by metal locking mechanism...

Tell me if you think that might be daft. If I don't hear back, I'll assume it's the best option and go ahead then seal it all up... maybe make the inside look a bit prettier first...

Much appreciated, once again. Thanks all...

 

[Inspector]

Brick houses are a rarity here but to my untrained eye there looks to be a concrete lintel above the door. Does it run across the windows too or is the end of it sitting on that stack of brick bits between the door and window? If a one piece lintel could the crumbling bricks be removed entirely and replaced with a steel post or lumber? Then you would be able to fit whatever is needed to hold the door and window in place and foamed to fill the gaps?

Pete

 

[redefined_cycles]

Very good point @Inspector
Two reasons why I couldn't/wouldn't do that even if the need arose (unless safety critical).

1. This was meant to be the quick project so I could continue with the rest of the porojects without all my gear being rusty again this coming winter.
2. Money restrictions... Though I did try and remove them bricks above the door/frame before removing said frame. They're in there solid... I believe the lintel is the actual roof which is a (crumbling but slowly) steel frame clad in concrete. Definitely don't want to start exploring further...

I did check for a steel lintel above the frame previously but it's non-existant... Hence concluded its the actual concrete/steel roof all acting as that structure... Seems (the roof/concrete) must've been added as the outhouse years after the original house as it (appears) to end at the house and using weight bearing walls to hold it up...

 

[johna.clements]

Thanks Johna... Yes, excellent feedback and advice that's really appreciated. Has got me to refine my plan and I'll run it by ya...

View attachment 147188
The marked 4" in marker is where I had originally planned to screw this wooden cover back. Marked where I can actually reach some brickwork behind it.

View attachment 147189

Top (I've shoved the ruler as far as I can).

View attachment 147190
Middle (the ruler is sitting flush next to the brickwork).

View attachment 147191
Bottom (don't need the ruler as this is where the frame is already screwed into them facing bricks).

Behind that wooden 180mm wide facing piece I'll screw in a couole of battons/blocks. Then once I've screwed this facing width over the gap (as seen in first pic) I'll use the block/blocks behind it - that will sit in the hollow behind - to then drill the left side of the door frame. I think I realistically only have the potential for one screw - at the widest hollow point at the top. Rest of the frame inner is taken up by metal locking mechanism...

Tell me if you think that might be daft. If I don't hear back, I'll assume it's the best option and go ahead then seal it all up... maybe make the inside look a bit prettier first...

Much appreciated, once again. Thanks all...

It looks like there is no gap between the door frame and the brick, so you will not be able to insert a board to screw too.

I do not know what you can do apart from a bodge unless you take the door out and start again.

 

[johna.clements]

Brick houses are a rarity here but to my untrained eye there looks to be a concrete lintel above the door. Does it run across the windows too or is the end of it sitting on that stack of brick bits between the door and window? If a one piece lintel could the crumbling bricks be removed entirely and replaced with a steel post or lumber? Then you would be able to fit whatever is needed to hold the door and window in place and foamed to fill the gaps?

Pete

There is a concrete flat roof with maybe a steel permanent formwork. No lintels. The brick wall is very likely to be holding up the concrete roof.

 

[redefined_cycles]

I've screwed this into the facing 1800mm wide wooden panel. I'll screw it with a plug into that brick is sits over. Another screw plug below into another brick I've fpund to be solid with good form around it. Then seal it all up...

Almost tried to overthink it (then screw it all up). Thanks for all your help everyone. Johnareally appreciate you looking over it and thankfully stopping what I was about to embark on... Kindest regards

 

[Tris]

Can't tell exactly how much clearance you've got to the wall on the left stile but something like these frame tie straps might save a lot of hassle by moving the fixing point further along the wall, then cover strip and filler foam as necessary

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/27458966...ar=574810896261&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

[redefined_cycles]

Thanks very much Tris but I believe I'm sorted now with finishing of the door fixing. Just need to think about the top of the door now to ensure I finish it so it's properly sealed and no risk of ingress from capillary action (from the overhang of the roof). I could just seal it all up and hope but may aswell ensure I don't miss anything...

 

[redefined_cycles]

Something to think about for the week... Before anyone notices, yes indeed it should have been recessed but the opening was/is rather and my priority was to have the door open out (and of the way) as much as poss. Hence the headframe was sacrificed by not being recessed enough.

Just need to figure a way to seal it and make it 0 risk of leaks. The builder (weekend builder with city and guilds under his belt, but generally part time in the trade... also known as my brother in law) did explain how it could be done. But I'm guessing there's a better way which someone here might kindly point out.

Hopefully won't need to open a seperate thread to get more attention on the matter...

It's either flush or proud by a mm or two...

Sorry for being so needy... and bodgy!

 

[redefined_cycles]

Framing partially finished. Screwed some batons into the board and fixed the rest of the frame into it like so. Before sealing it all up I think I'm gonna take this opportunity to think about a canopy that might allow some outdoor work in ligh rain. It's gonna be shallow and I don't want to block the light into the house.

One of thw primary reasons for an outward opening door was for interior space and to manage my 'glass back'. One thing is for certain, as well as the weatherproofing aspects, the outward opening has really had a lovely effect on the spine. Feels nimble already and hopefully the maneuverability inside means I should have many years of good productivity (and a tidy outhouse).

Next episode : sealing and canopy ;-)

 

[Tris]

A piece of uPVC shiplap cladding, top trimmed to fit under the concrete? Should throw water off well enough as the lap will sit below the joint level, if that makes any sense

 

[redefined_cycles]

I can't quite picture what you mean Tris. But if you mean to faten a UPVC shiplap to the canopy of the current roof, I'm not sure that woild be too smart. Its a (potentially) crumbly concrete thing with a steel/galvanised frame. I fear that if I touch that too much I'll end up with lots of unusable holes as it all falls apart.

At some point I suppose I need to scratch away all the loose material and add mortar (which is how the council repaired and patched the inside when we reported it many years ago).

I really would like to take this opportunity to make an awning/canopt that's actually usable to be able to work outside. I fear that thw shallow pitch would probably make it useless for any meaningful weatherproofed work. If I did manage to make it wide/deep enough then the fear would be light being restricted into the sitring room.

View from the living room...

 

[Inspector]

Polycarbonate used in green houses will make a nice roof for a outdoor working area that won't block any light going into the shop and it would keep your door dry too. A couple examples below but you should be able to source local stuff.

https://www.toolstation.com/construction-insulation/polycarbonate-sheets/c1110
https://www.theglazingshop.co.uk/multiwall-polycarbonate-sheets-sheeting.html
Pete