Orange score own goal!

[RogerS]

Had to chuckle. Got an email from Orange asking how they can improve their Contact Us section. Just about to delete it when I noticed the addressees....all listed. Someone forgot to use the Bcc button and, instead, CC'd the lot.

Now how much am i bid for a large email list of Orange customers ?

 

[studders]

Nothing, don't like Oranges, Nasty things that they are.

 

[Chris J]

I think I'd email them all and let them know.

Don't forget to copy the Orange board of directors in on the email.

Light blue touchpaper....

 

[RogerS]

And the replies are starting to come in!

Well, that didn’t compromise anyone’s email addresses did it?

Dear Orange,

Your 'Customer Service' could be immediately improved by allowing only competent people to send emails out.

Have you never heard of 'email scamming'?

I hope you lose an awful lot of business for this.

A compromised and disgusted Orange customer.


hi orange this is my work email account and you have breached the privacy act so i will be going to watch dog about this regards


And my current favourite ......

Nice work Orange, may I suggest a refresher training on the data protection act for your employees.....or on second thought prepare your PR team for the oncoming questions from the media when this goes public....

 

[RogerS]

orange u have issues

Jesus. Orange stop this conversation immediately I'm sick of it. I would rather report to our mail administrator. If necessary, I would file an official complaint.

Please remove me from your mailling like with immediate effect. Thanks

(clearly someone who hasn't quite cottoned on how email addressing works)

And another one I like....

Still, breaks up the day a little.

The future's bright..

I'd love to take part but my ISP (Zen) blocks me sending any emails with more than about 20 recipients. That little niggle plus their draconian way of automatically blocking your internet access if you go over your download limit means that Zen no longer get my vote. PlusNet here we come.

 

[matt]

Hypocrites. Damning Orange for their error and then using it to promote their pompous self-rightousness. Idiots.

 

[RogerS]

Hypocrites. Damning Orange for their error and then using it to promote their pompous self-rightousness. Idiots.

Why?

Orange make a big song and dance about their privacy policy.

They make an equally big song and dance about using email as a means of communication. I have yet to send them an email and get any reply to any question as, regardless of what the question is, the automatic response is 'Please call us'.

They haven't even had the decency to send out an apology.

 

[matt]

Hypocrites. Damning Orange for their error and then using it to promote their pompous self-rightousness. Idiots.

Why?

Orange make a big song and dance about their privacy policy.

They make an equally big song and dance about using email as a means of communication. I have yet to send them an email and get any reply to any question as, regardless of what the question is, the automatic response is 'Please call us'.

They haven't even had the decency to send out an apology.

Neither of which requires everyone to becopied on an email.
Orange made a serious error sharing email addresses. Everyone who then uses those addresses, even just CCing on a reply, is misusing the contact details - perpetuating the error and taking advantage of the very thing they're complaining about. What motivates an individual to share their resPonse? A self-indulgent sense of superiority.

 

[RogerS]

Fair point. I'd say that drumming up some sort of joint response is valid though.

 

[big soft moose]

Orange make a big song and dance about their privacy policy.
.

you know when you've been tango'd

 

[big soft moose]

.

They make an equally big song and dance about using email as a means of communication. I have yet to send them an email and get any reply to any question as, regardless of what the question is, the automatic response is 'Please call us'.

.

I'm an orange customer but i didnt see fit to share my email addres with them - ive got an orange mobile so if they want to contact me they can call it.

 

[Losos]

Hypocrites. Damning Orange for their error and then using it to promote their pompous self-rightousness. Idiots.

Why?

Orange make a big song and dance about their privacy policy.

They make an equally big song and dance about using email as a means of communication. I have yet to send them an email and get any reply to any question as, regardless of what the question is, the automatic response is 'Please call us'.

They haven't even had the decency to send out an apology.

Roger - Not hypocritical at all - Have sent you a PM and deleted most of this post, I felt that although a load of muppets they might just get UKW in some kind of legal shenanigins so better leave it out :lol:

 

[matt]

Roger was not being branded a hypocrite... I'll not bore with a 3rd post explaining the point I was making.

 

[RogerS]

....no desire to get it right first time....

I think that that could apply to the vast majority of companies now, to be honest. Maybe it's an age thing or simply a reflection of the way I tried to do things properly when I was working in IT/consultancy.

SWMBO and me were talking about this the other night and it struck us both that so many systems being put in now never seem to be tested from a holistic viewpoint. For example, taking part in some sort of financial activity. You'll get a letter with bits of key information on it. Then you'll have a website that you interact with. The two bits are supposed to work together but 99 times out of 100, the terminology in the letter will be different to the website. User ID as opposed to Reference Number. Is it really that difficult to join things up?

Or are all these companies now pared down to the bare bones that they don't have the time/staff/culture to get things right first time?

Here's another one. Recently opened a new business bank account complete with debit card. You log onto the website to activate it. Part way through the process you get asked if you want to register the card with one of those second-line defences against fraud. Sounds like a good idea and you go through all the palaver. All seems to work fine until you get to the end and up pops an error screen complete with code, telephone number for you to call. You call and what do you find? You have to have some money in the account as the system temporarily deducts £1. Now, in the grand scheme of things and when the account is up and running you will have some money in it. But equally, if you are just starting to set the damn thing up, then chances are you may not have got round to putting any money into it. So why waste my time and money?

Did the systems analyst think of this? Looks unlikely. Or maybe there was no-one actually thinking through the whole process. It would have been so simple to word the letter differently.

Anyone working out there at the coalface care to respond?

 

[Losos]

User ID as opposed to Reference Number. Is it really that difficult to join things up?


But equally, if you are just starting to set the damn thing up, then chances are you may not have got round to putting any money into it. So why waste my time and money?

Oh my God, these things get me really worked up, honestly how difficult would it be to cross check one with the other :!: :x

Likewise, how long would it take to put in big letters "Please credit your account with at least £1 before registering for this service ' or words to that effect.

It's not rocket science is it :lol: I put it down to lack of management discipline (Which I mentioned in that PM to you) and also the fact that these days if management even raises their voice when talking to an employee it's bullying or a sex / race discrimination offence. Management are not allowed to discipline staff, errors are just dealt with on a touchy feely one to one 'chat' :lol:

When I started my apprenticeship I remember the first department I was in the foreman came running over to me one day in an agitated state saying he had just heard the Managing Director was in the factory, and I was to tidy my work bench, make sure all the test equipment was working, and only talk to him if he asked me a question :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[matt]

In many instances IT does not need to be a good as you demand unless you're actually buying the software yourself - when you'll compare the products on offer and buy the one most highly recommended to suit the task in hand.

Take your bank account for example... I don't know your reasons for choosing this particular vendor but let's assume that locality, financial services, and interest rates are best suited to the task of you and the bank managing your money. So when you experience an irritating **** up it does not have you rushing to another bank. Partly because their IT competence was not a deciding factor and partly because you don't really expect any vendor to not irritate you with their IT any less one way or another.

In other instances IT can make or break a business. Amazon would not be where they are now if their web site was not bang on for most of the people most of the time. Sure they have problems etc but relatively infrequently and usually for a very short period of time.

It's commercial. They don't need to invest in pleasing you with their IT. They know in most cases you'll put up with it.

The cost v. benefits case looks so much more appealing when you balance your resources to focus on what will achieve the most profit in the shortest space of time for the least cost. It's not that anyone goes to work to do a bad job, it's simply resources don't always allow you to fettle the fine details or get round to curing them after.

Customers would not want to bear the cost of a perfect IT system. Not even one that comes hardly ever irritating you. It's very easy to pick holes.

 

[RogerS]

In many instances IT does not need to be a good as you demand unless you're actually buying the software yourself - when you'll compare the products on offer and buy the one most highly recommended to suit the task in hand.

Take your bank account for example... I don't know your reasons for choosing this particular vendor but let's assume that locality, financial services, and interest rates are best suited to the task of you and the bank managing your money. So when you experience an irritating ***** up it does not have you rushing to another bank. Partly because their IT competence was not a deciding factor and partly because you don't really expect any vendor to not irritate you with their IT any less one way or another.

In other instances IT can make or break a business. Amazon would not be where they are now if their web site was not bang on for most of the people most of the time. Sure they have problems etc but relatively infrequently and usually for a very short period of time.

It's commercial. They don't need to invest in pleasing you with their IT. They know in most cases you'll put up with it.

The cost v. benefits case looks so much more appealing when you balance your resources to focus on what will achieve the most profit in the shortest space of time for the least cost. It's not that anyone goes to work to do a bad job, it's simply resources don't always allow you to fettle the fine details or get round to curing them after.

Customers would not want to bear the cost of a perfect IT system. Not even one that comes hardly ever irritating you. It's very easy to pick holes.

That is so much twaddle I don't really know were to start.

In essence what you are saying is that it's OK to cut corners, OK to implement a half-hearted system and that cockups as seen from the customer perspective are perfectly acceptable. The modus operandi is "Come on, chaps, let's just whack this shenzy IT system in and go down the pub. Sod the customer.". That's what it sounds like.

Comes back to what I was saying...do it cheap and pipper the consequences.

 

[Losos]

It's commercial. They don't need to invest in pleasing you with their IT. They know in most cases you'll put up with it.

matt - that is one of the most blatant examples of what is wrong with our society today - just get away with what ever you can, what ever happened to dedication and perserverance :?: I have to say that what you have written does seem to be the norm in so many areas of life now but I also have to say that I don't like it and it's making me very anti social.

If this is the work attitude of people, then to **** with them, I'm not going to get involved in the world, forget 'green' forget 'climate change' forget 'earthquakes' and 'tsunamis' why bother :?: the people who supply me with product and services don't care, as you say they'll just get away with what they can, so why should I give a damm about anything :?:

 

[matt]

In essence what you are saying is that it's OK to cut corners, OK to implement a half-hearted system and that cockups as seen from the customer perspective are perfectly acceptable. The modus operandi is "Come on, chaps, let's just whack this shenzy IT system in and go down the pub. Sod the customer.". That's what it sounds like.

I'm not saying it's OK. But then I don't see a correlation between what I wrote and your "essence".

matt - that is one of the most blatant examples of what is wrong with our society today - just get away with what ever you can...

I know what you're describing but I find the suggestion that a commercial organisation not ticking all the boxes in an IT solution as eating away at the fabric of society quite funny. Sorry... I really don't see this a problem affecting society, let alone a blatant example.

This simply boils down to getting what you pay for. Same as buying table from IKEA versus having one made by a joiner. There isn't an individual in a factory somewhere saying make it as crappy as possible. They're building to a price - the skills and materials reflect the end product.

Your emotional head seems to be ruling when it's really not some big conspiracy. There aren't analysts and programmers sitting around saying let's do a dung job and go down the pub - that's just plain stupid. Nobody goes to work to do a bad job.

To reiterate... I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying it can't be better. It just comes at a price - same as most things. Bank with Coutts, pay their fees, and I'm sure you'll be thrilled with the quality of their IT...

 

[Anonymous]

Matt,

I don't disagree with you regarding the attitude of may companies. I don't think they're deliberately allowing rubbish IT systems though (and I don't think they consider it to be ok). I think the problem lies in the IT industry (and more specifically in the software industry). For some reason quite a few years ago it became acceptable to produce software with bugs in. Strangley enough we put up with it and carried on buying the bug ridden software and so it continued. It's completely unacceptable and has done the software industry massive damage.

If I had been Roger I'd have contacted the media about the mistake. I'm sure they'd have made a big issue over it. That way Orange suffers for it's mistakes. At least that way they will put more pressure on their software suppliers to get things right first time round.

Dave