One for the collectors and completists

[Andy Kev.]

I just read Andy T's reply to BlueKingfisher ref his query with the little stringing tool and it made me wonder if Andy and others like him who seem to have fairly comprehensive collections and a lot of knowledge each have a holy grail of tool collecting. What is the one that would represent the icing on the cake and that you would go out of your way for?

For what its worth and although I'm no collector, I reckon the dream tool would be a bang on accurate manual pillar drill.

 

[AndyT]

Good question. But seeking a holy grail sounds a bit planned - my own modest assortment of tools has been gathered fairly haphazardly. Sometimes I have bought a tool to use, sometimes because it was intriguing and sometimes because it was a bargain nobody else wanted.
I do have a manual pillar drill - there are pictures of it being put in order somewhere on here - but I've never measured how precise it is. It's been ok when I have used it.

There are some tools I would like to own but have never seen on sale at all. I'm thinking of things like patented planes which barely made it into production.
But I'm always open to temptation!

 

[Andy Kev.]

I'm moderately surprised that you didn't come up with two or three things that you've always wanted to get your hands on.

I reckon that if one of the modern manufacturers like Clifton or Veritas were to produce a manual pillar drill, they would find there is a market for it. The technology is not difficult; just toothed gears and they can be produced to high tolerances and it wouldn't have to be a massive thing, just something that could be clamped to the bench top as I understand some of the old ones were.

 

[MikeG.]

......I do have a manual pillar drill.........

I am selling one on another forum for a friend. That's forbidden in the rules here, otherwise it'd be on here too. So if anyone wants one, you can toddle over to Woodhaven 2...... Otherwise, I may end up having it myself.

 

[AndyT]

I reckon that if one of the modern manufacturers like Clifton or Veritas were to produce a manual pillar drill, they would find there is a market for it. The technology is not difficult; just toothed gears and they can be produced to high tolerances and it wouldn't have to be a massive thing, just something that could be clamped to the bench top as I understand some of the old ones were.

Ah but Andy, that's why I mentioned the appeal of the bargain in my reply. I've found the story of my drill - it's here:

nice-new-bench-drill-t80666.html

And as you can see, it cost me the princely sum of £16. How much would a modern version be if made in the west? £300 + ? If I were spending that much, I'd be looking for a well maintained Meddings!

 

[woodbloke66]

What is the one that would represent the icing on the cake and that you would go out of your way for?

One of the late Jim Krenov's wooden smoothers or something that belonged to Alan Peters - Rob

 

[Andy Kev.]

I reckon that if one of the modern manufacturers like Clifton or Veritas were to produce a manual pillar drill, they would find there is a market for it. The technology is not difficult; just toothed gears and they can be produced to high tolerances and it wouldn't have to be a massive thing, just something that could be clamped to the bench top as I understand some of the old ones were.

Ah but Andy, that's why I mentioned the appeal of the bargain in my reply. I've found the story of my drill - it's here:

nice-new-bench-drill-t80666.html

And as you can see, it cost me the princely sum of £16. How much would a modern version be if made in the west? £300 + ? If I were spending that much, I'd be looking for a well maintained Meddings!

You did well with that!

I was thinking more of something like a North Bros. drill which I recently saw a picture of. It was a much lighter machine than the impressive beast which you have. It looked like it could be clamped to a benchtop and it was that which I had in mind when I thought that a modern version might be a good idea. I'll see if I can find a picture somewhere.

 

[AndyT]

I was thinking more of something like a North Bros. drill which I recently saw a picture of. It was a much lighter machine than the impressive beast which you have. It looked like it could be clamped to a benchtop and it was that which I had in mind when I thought that a modern version might be a good idea. I'll see if I can find a picture somewhere.

Something like this little Millers Falls No 207?

 

[AndyT]

One of the late Jim Krenov's wooden smoothers or something that belonged to Alan Peters - Rob

I think I can remember a discussion on here about Krenov's planes - don't you already have one Rob?

 

[Andy Kev.]

Andy,

yes that's more like what I was thinking of. Do you really think that a modern remake of that would cost 300 quid? And would it have to have quite so much heavy metal in it? I'm not clued up on the making of tools but had imagined something a bit more structurally light.

Andy.

 

[AndyT]

Andy,

yes that's more like what I was thinking of. Do you really think that a modern remake of that would cost 300 quid? And would it have to have quite so much heavy metal in it? I'm not clued up on the making of tools but had imagined something a bit more structurally light.

Andy.

I've no idea really, but £300 was my guess for a big heavy job like the first bench drill.

I expect something like the Millers Falls could be a lot less, depending on quantity and where it was made.

 

[Andy Kev.]

I see that Jim Bode Tools has got a Millers Falls one for about $360. That's a fair bit and then there would be the transatlantic postage to add to it!

 

[AndyT]

Andy, you might want to read this old thread. I don't guarantee that you will enjoy it, but it will show you the area of the old tools market I enjoy the most...

boring-tools-t61337.html

 

[Boringgeoff]

I found that an interesting read Andy, have you found a brace by Quimby S. Backus yet? I was amused to read jimi43's comment "somebody who has suffered being called Quimby for his entire life!" For the unfortunately named Quimby things got worse, in about 1903 he entered politics and the printer misspelt (misspelled?) his name on his election flyers and he became Quincy. There is a quite a bit about him on Randy Roeders handy Old Tool Heaven site here: http://oldtoolheaven.com/biography/backus.htm
The old Quimbster is one of my favourite brace manufacturers.
Cheers,
Geoff.

 

[Andy Kev.]

Andy, you might want to read this old thread. I don't guarantee that you will enjoy it, but it will show you the area of the old tools market I enjoy the most...

boring-tools-t61337.html

That is very interesting. I think that if any tool is almost designed to be collected it is braces and drills.

Out of interest, do those Marples Ultimatum braces, which seem to go for such high prices, take normal auger bits and centre bits and how well do they work?

 

[Andy Kev.]

I found that an interesting read Andy, have you found a brace by Quimby S. Backus yet? I was amused to read jimi43's comment "somebody who has suffered being called Quimby for his entire life!" For the unfortunately named Quimby things got worse, in about 1903 he entered politics and the printer misspelt (misspelled?) his name on his election flyers and he became Quincy. There is a quite a bit about him on Randy Roeders handy Old Tool Heaven site here: http://oldtoolheaven.com/biography/backus.htm
The old Quimbster is one of my favourite brace manufacturers.
Cheers,
Geoff.

Didn't he end up producing the Tom & Jerry cartoons?

 

[AndyT]

Andy, you might want to read this old thread. I don't guarantee that you will enjoy it, but it will show you the area of the old tools market I enjoy the most...

boring-tools-t61337.html

That is very interesting. I think that if any tool is almost designed to be collected it is braces and drills.

Out of interest, do those Marples Ultimatum braces, which seem to go for such high prices, take normal auger bits and centre bits and how well do they work?

Quite right, but that's real hard-core collecting - I'm only in the beginning of the foothills. :lol: There were hundreds of patents for braces and drills - it must have been the nineteenth century equivalent of our market for phone apps, as the place where bright ideas gathered, with only a few breaking through to widespread use.

I don't have an Ultimatum - too spendy - but I do have a plain beechwood brace with a similar button chuck. They all take the "standard" bits with a square taper shank at the end. I use mine mostly for countersinking, for which it is excellent.

 

[Boringgeoff]

I have only had an interest in collecting braces and brace tools for about 10 years, and have had to stay focused to not deviate off the chosen path. I have deliberately stayed away from the Marples Ultimatum for the same reason as Andy "too spendy" but they have come down in price massively in the last few years. The only wooden brace I have is this Robert Sorby & Sons which I bought in NZ about nine years ago.

It was the first beech brace I'd seen, and was pretty impressed as was my older brother who encouraged me to purchase it. It cost me about NZ$600 which I now realise was faaar too much but a lesson learnt and no use crying over spilt milk.
I try to research patents and am always interested in others observations, for instance, I had no idea that Q.Backus may have produced the Tom & Jerry cartoons which of course opens up another facet of this otherwise Boring fellow, thanks AK for the heads-up.
Some of you will know of my fixation with Sheffield brace and plane maker James A. Chapman whose braces are FF here in Aus' though information about him seems to be thin on the ground. He made a brace, No32, which incorporates the ratchet patented by Albert Goodell (of Goodell - Pratt) in the USA in 1892. (No 488691)

Here the two together GP upper and JC lower

Tentatively I have dated No 32 at about 1911.
My obsession with Mr Chapman is that it appears that he embraced the American steel brace when other British makers were continuing to make wooden and scotch braces with their button and lever latches and yet up until the mid 1800's the Americans had been forced to buy their bits from England and Germany because their steel technology was not up to the required standard.
I'll leave it there because you've all nodded off.
Cheers,
Geoff.

 

[StraightOffTheArk]

Thanks for that, most interesting - no danger of nodding off as it appeals immensely, also, helps to keep my mind off the slow motion train crash that is Brexit!

 

[Andy Kev.]

Andy,

thanks for clarifying the usefulness of the Ultimatum style braces. There is a temptation to get one of those but purely for aesthetic/historical reasons and there is a terrible danger that that would set one on the road to collecting. There's also the fact that the Ultimatums are so elegant that you could almost think that it would look good in a display case or is too fine to use.

I've got a 6" and 8" from Millers Falls, a 10" from North Bros and a 10" which is almost certainly a Millers Falls but sold under the brand name of a US store and which is in mint condition. They all work excellently. I've had no urge to get any more but now I have to resist the little nagging voice which says, "Oh go on, just one Ultimatum, then". "Nay, nay and thrice nay", is the answer, I think.