Old Stanley #5 tune-up screwed-up ?

[pompon44]

Hi,

I've got an old Stanley #5 (one without the screw at the back of the frog to move it) that I tried to tune-up. So I started with the frog, as the blade had a tendency to chatter (even on fir...). So here I go with my coarse DMT for the top of the frog, and flat it becomes. Then I took a file and tried to flatten and smooth the back seating of the frog. Then I sharpened the underside of the tip of the chipbreaker, polished the top of the tip of the chipbreaker, and... reassembled the plane.

And well, the blade won't go out anymore !
I'm afraid I've overdone the filling of the back seating and so the frog angle is no longer 45°. This is for the moment the only cause of the problem I can imagine. Any other ideas ? And if this is it, is the tool ruined ? or could I try to file the bottom front of the frog to recover it ?

A tune-up-challenged beginner,

Regards,

 

[David C]

I think it is more likely that the length of your chipbreaker/cap-iron is too short?

This part is (relatively) easily replaced.

I very much doubt you have removed enough metal from the frog or its seating to radically alter the geometry of the plane. And if you had I would expect the blade to stick out too far?

David

 

[Shivers]

How long is the blade --does it have plenty of length left,i can't imagine that cap iron or slight difference in frog would do that,there should be enough latitude to set the cap iron in the correct place
& if the frog is a slight different angle -adjust it forward slightly by padding it up with a piece of laminate or something.i once did this with an old record plane(jack plane)where the frog casting really should have been a reject--but since it was second hand & i didn't spot it at the time i had to live with it,& it still works today.

shivers.

 

[pompon44]

Hi,

Thanks for your answers.

I actually have 3 old planes : 2 #5 (the old one and a more recent one, but vintage too) and a #4 (around 1902). So I have 3 blades (actually 4 as I've bougth a new LN replacement blade) and 3 chipbreakers to play with.

My chipbreakers are around 5" long, and the blades around 7". If I put the old #5 chipbreaker and blade on the more recent #5, I can get the blade out w/o any problem, hence my first diagnosis.

But I agree as well that it seems odd to be able to remove enough metal to change dramatically the plane's geometry...

Will have another look this evening and try to understand this puzzle...

Regards,

 

[Wiley Horne]

Pompon,

Couple of suggestions.....Remove the lever cap and set it aside for a moment. Take the blade/chipbreaker assembly and slide it down the frog and see what is causing it to hang up in the throat.

If blade/chipbreaker slides freely, then you begin to suspect that the depth adjuster is not engaging. Check this, again with the lever cap to the side, so you can see exactly what is happening.

Wiley

 

[David C]

Wiley has a good suggestion.

The length of chipbreaker is critical and there was variation of production.

The "length" I refer to is distance from front edge of C/B to the slot in which the Y adjustment lever engages.

The optimum position for the tip of the Y lever is vertical to the surface of the frog, (where the blade sits).

David

 

[Anonymous]

Sounds like you need visual feedback really to give yourself an understanding of what to do next... I think its hard for any of us to give you great advice without the thing in our hands.

try and stick, say an awl, in between the blade and the frog, whilst its all bound up, in through the mouth.....

Can you lift the blade that way ? ...shouldn't be able to.

Are you laying a ruler along the frog up against the light ? ....you want it flat, but a valleys ok as long as the bevel of your blade and rear of your lade (where you clamp down the lever cap) is on the same plane .....if there's a hill your going to have to remove it...(you can actually grind it out quickly by taking it straight into the curvature of the grinder)

see, ultimately you want the end of the bevel of your blade firmly in contact with the bed..... most important. Do what you can to make that true.

goodluck.

 

[pompon44]

Hi,

Got very few time in the shop tonight...

But I must admit that I was not rigourous enough in my tests (where I indeed only played with the blade and the frog, I've set aside the chipbreaker and lever cap right after discovering the problem) yesterday.
Seems I focused too much on the frog, and forgot that I also replaced the blade (never change more than one parameter at once, if you want a controled experiment, I should know that !).
Turns out that with the original blade, I can get it out, while the LN (replacement, made for old Stanley, i.e. the 0.095" thick one) get stuck in the mouth.
I won't pretend I understand exactly what's going on, but at least my plane is not completely ruined ;-)
Not going much further tonight, as I need to work tomorrow ;-)

Thanks for your hints,

Regards,

 

[Anonymous]

ohh ! you cluts ! :wink:

no, I make those mistakes myself to try and save time.... must force myself to change one little thing,,,,,,test,,,,,change another little thing,,,,,,test.......and so on......Might end up wasting a bit of timber, but its the only way ...eh ? :lol: Glad to here you worked it out.

For me, with problem solving,,,,,I often focus so much on fixing the hardest issues that I often forget the obvious ones.......to the point I can be scratching my head for quite a while over something simple