Old chair for an old friend.

[Froggy]

Hi Everyone,

An old friend has just brought me a beautiful old chair that collapsed when he sat on it. It was his wife's grandmother's and he is desperate for me to repair it. I have a couple of issues. I don't want to have to start making new parts as I think it's possibly a fruit wood and even if I could get hold of some (after identifying it!) I wouldn't be able to match the patina of what if probably a 100 year old chair.
So if I clean the joints up I think they may be a bit slack when I reglue. If this is the case, how best to deal with it? Epoxy resin perhaps? And in the second picture you can see the end of the joint is worn. How best to deal with that? I thought about cutting it off, drilling a hole in the spindle and using a dowel to add a piece of oak or something, that won't be seen when the chair is put back together, but would it be strong enough? Any help/advice would be gratefully received.
Thanks Froggy.

Sorry the second photo is out of focus.

 

[marcus]

It's best not to use epoxy on antiques if you can avoid it, although this would work. If you go this route it would be a good idea to thicken it with micro-fibres or similar.

If it was me I would try gluing a piece of thin veneer, grain orientated in same direction as on the leg, round the tenon (wet it and it will probably bend round, maybe support it with tape as you bend), and then sanding, rasping or spoke-shaving it down until I got a snug fit. I would use hide glue for the repair as it is appropriate to the chair and leaves it repairable in future.

 

[Froggy]

Thanks for that Marcus, but what is 'hide glue' and where do I get it?

 

[Shrubby]

Colle de peau de lapin
Sticks to the old glue and as Marcus said easily reversible
I would clean the end of the tenon and the bottom of the mortice,they should be tapered so the joint can be tightened
Matt

 

[AndyT]

Good advice so far.
Have a look at this guy's blog - he's so enthusiastic on the virtues of hide glue that he's written a book about it! He's very good on repair techniques in general - start at this link and have a read around:

http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?cat=30

If you don't want to equip yourself with a double skin glue pot just for this job, I suggest 'Liquid Hide Glue' as made by Franklin (makers of Titebond). Rutlands definitely sell it, and it shouldn't be too hard to find. It works at room temperature and is quite runny, so it's very economical, and gives a comfortably long open time, which is good for jobs where the clamping gets complicated. Very long shelf life too.

 

[Shrubby]

You don't need the iron glue pot - I've always used a saucepan of hot water,stand a couple of bean tins in the pan,one for the glue and one full of hot water to keep brushes ,syringes and tools in. Baby bottle warmers are very popular (cheap too)
The franklin glue is fashionably expensive - I use Sheppy scotch glue.They make lots of traditional adhesives both dry and liquid (with Phenol preservative to stop mould)
Matt

 

[Froggy]

Thanks Guys, very helpful. What would you suggest for the damaged tenon? Will the dowel method work or will it be too weak?
The fullchisel blog was very interesting and helpful.

 

[Benchwayze]

Froggy,

I don't use animal glue a lot. However, this is all I have ever used. No one has so far complained!


You can get it in dry form from Amazon...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keyw ... k8cnxiol_b

Or...

http://www.sheppy.ltd.uk/adhesives/pearl-glue.htm

It's easy to prepare either way. A sauce pan and a couple of empty bean tins, as already suggested. No need to break the glue into bits first.

There is an evocative smell you get in the shop, when the glue 'stink' mixes with the wood scents! Hard to describe, but it's a lovely 'old' smell!

PS.. DON'T allow it to boil... That reduces it's 'stickability'.


HTH
John (hammer)

 

[Jonzjob]

"Colle de peau de lapin"

Rabbit skin glue. Good stuff. I have never used it but if it has been around for that long it can't be bad and as Benchwayze said gives a lovely smell in the workshop..

 

[AndyT]

I take it that the second fuzzy photo shows a tenon which is a bit short for the whole, with a jagged top where some fibres have pulled out of the top of the leg.

If there is really not enough wood there, this should be possible - as suggested by Charles Hayward, though I've not done it myself.

Cut back the top of the leg slightly, so it has a sound, square end.
Drill a straight, central hole down the axis of the leg. (You might need to make a jig to ensure straightness and centrality.)
Turn a peg which has a thin part to fit the hole, and a thick part to match the disappeared end.
Glue it in place. Use a jubilee clip to clamp/reinforce the end.
Sand/stain etc so the new bit matches.
Glue into mortice.

The good thing is that most of the mend is hidden by the seat. It's rather similar to the process for a hip repair, if that helps at all!

 

[Benchwayze]

I take it that the second fuzzy photo shows a tenon which is a bit short for the whole, with a jagged top where some fibres have pulled out of the top of the leg.

If there is really not enough wood there, this should be possible - as suggested by Charles Hayward, though I've not done it myself.

Cut back the top of the leg slightly, so it has a sound, square end.
Drill a straight, central hole down the axis of the leg. (You might need to make a jig to ensure straightness and centrality.)
Turn a peg which has a thin part to fit the hole, and a thick part to match the disappeared end.
Glue it in place. Use a jubilee clip to clamp/reinforce the end.
Sand/stain etc so the new bit matches.
Glue into mortice.

The good thing is that most of the mend is hidden by the seat. It's rather similar to the process for a hip repair, if that helps at all!

Well Andy, you just put me off having my hip replaced. I don't think hide glue would be good enough! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Froggy]

Thanks guys. That's great advice. I've ordered the glue and will try your method Andy (Charles Hayward's) for the broken tenon. I really appreciate it as it's for a very good friend (who incidently as just had a hip op!) and I want it to be right.

Thanks to all Froggy.

 

[Sawyer]

If this is the case, how best to deal with it? Epoxy resin perhaps?

Don't do it! (hammer)

It breaks fundamental rules of restoration, as an epoxy repair is potentially unreversable and uses a technique not available at the time of construction. In France, the traditional glues are colle d'os, colle de nerf, colle de peau and colle de poisson. For assembly of a chair, colle d'os is the most likely original. If stuck, try British pearl glue see Axminster, et al ), which I think is very similar. All of these are 'hot glues': other posts have already given useful suggestions on how to heat it.

It's worth giving trad. hot glues a try. They're a bit fiddly and can smell nasty, but when you discover their properties, you'll be amazed. If something is glued wrongly, or needs repairing just apply moisture & heat and you can dismantle and do it again - even if the joint was made back in 1750. Scientists have yet to devise a modern equivalent (as far as I know?).

The Hayward suggestions quoted above are good ones. Best of luck with the project.

 

[Froggy]

Thanks for that sawyer. How far are you from the Limousin out of interest?