Oil based paint / water based paint....

[NikNak]

Hi all.... so i've just embarked on a decorating project for an old(er) lady in the village where i live.... hall/stairs/landing etc.

It turns out (some) of the woodwork has been previously painted using water based paint over oil based, and as i'm rubbing it down its just flaking off.

I've suggested using (white) oil based to redo all the woodwork etc, but am worried that putting oil based on top of water based will be just as bad as putting water based on top of oil based and it'll just flake/chip off #-o

Anyone out there with experience of this dilemma.?

 

[Selwyn]

I'm not going to say linseed oil this time but ring up Zniesser and ask them how well their Allcoat will stick

 

[Selwyn]

I'm not going to say linseed oil this time but ring up Zniesser and ask them how well their Allcoat will stick

Or Bedec MSP

 

[stuartpaul]

I've used loads of water based over oil based (in fact I won't used oil based now) and never had an issue with later flaking when redecorating.

Could it simply be an issue with poor preparation previously? I always rub down well and then use sugar soap.

 

[Mike Jordan]

My limited experience with water based paint has been very disappointing , it doesn't seem to have any ability to sooth out brush marks to give a decent gloss. If you over brush it matters become worse and the coarse brush marks remain and give a corrugated finish. I have only used one brand of paint so far and I am wondering if anyone can recommend a make that behaves more like conventional gloss. With water based varnish I have had slightly better results but you really need to move quickly and not over brush or the finish is rubbish.

 

[gregmcateer]

It's probably poor prep of substrate previously, as said above.

If the surface is OK, even if still glossy, use Zinsser 1-2-3 (the blue tin) as a primer straight over the gloss - no rubbing down. It really does work. After the zinsser, (which will of course have 'show-through', as it's just a primer), do one or two topcoat of choice.

I've just done all the woodwork in a completely empty 3-bedder and it looks just grand.

 

[mbartlett99]

Can't say I'm made up with waterbased paint either. Used oil based Dulux satinwood in most of the house when I moved in - slow to dry but flowed out lovely. Recently bought some but turned out it was the new waterbased satinwood 'quickdry' - seriously hard to eliminate brush marks, had to roller/tip just to get an ok finish.

Didn't notice any adhesion issues though so I'm going to guess crappy prepwork is your problem back whenever it was.

 

[Flynnwood]

There are only three variables: Preparation, application, or the paint. If the water based previous coating is flaking/peeling then that is down to poor prep. Oil based (white) will turn slightly yellow where there is no (UV) sunlight within a few months because of VOC regs imposed on the paint industry in 2010. Water based was created to counter that and be more resistant. Oil based (white) is great outside. For inside (white), use water based and work quickly i.e. paint one side of a door within eight minutes. Dampen the roller/brush in water first.

 

[thetyreman]

why was this moved from finishing into 'off topic'? the topic is clearly finishing and woodworking related :lol:

 

[matt]

Another vote for Zinnser, Bulls Eye 123 for this particular example. Use a brush with man made bristles designed for water based paints. The ends are feathered. Recommend the basic Purdy brushes.

 

[Blockplane]

why was this moved from finishing into 'off topic'? the topic is clearly finishing and woodworking related :lol:

Probably to NikNak's advantage - I'm sure the 'off topic' board is more widely read than 'finishing'

 

[Blockplane]

If the client's budget will run to it, consider the 'intelligent emulsion' range from Little Greene, which (with the exception of some genuine lead based paint I got to use back in the 70's) is by far the best paint I have ever used - water based, but without the problems that others have described with the water based acrylics.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Anyone looking for cheap half decent brushes should look at these -
https://www.bmstores.co.uk/products/har ... 5pc-319243

Yes, there are better brushes around, but for a quid each they're perfectly usable and it'll cost more to clean them out than they're worth.

 

[Glynne]

Anyone looking for cheap half decent brushes should look at these -
https://www.bmstores.co.uk/products/har ... 5pc-319243

Yes, there are better brushes around, but for a quid each they're perfectly usable and it'll cost more to clean them out than they're worth.

+1 I’ve been using these for a few years now (from Costco) and provided you remove the excess form the brush before cleaning with a solvent, they come up very well, certainly well enough to use more than one. Good to know that BM Stores sell them as I gave up my Costco membership.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I tend to clingfilm them for a few days until they get manky then chuck them.

 

[NikNak]

@ gregmcateer & flynnwood.... well i've spoken with the lady and you're absolutely right, on ALL 3 counts..!!

NO prep
used an OLD brush she found somewhere
and as already mentioned it was water based over oil

So..... because of what she'd previously done several years ago (on a whim it seems...) i've explained that unless theres a LOT of rubbing down and re-prepping then there is a possibility that what ever i do may chip/flake off. As its only her living there with the occasional visit from grandchildren she's happy with the risk.

I've opted to use Dulux Once Brilliant White Satinwood. And have been VERY impressed with the results so far. OMG it covers in one coat, and OMG its WHITE..!! And although its a high VOC paint it didn't smell as bad as i expected it to.

Taking a day off today to let it 'harden' before i go back and start putting new door handles on and other bits and bobs that'll just finish it all off. And have explained to leave it a couple of weeks before the new stair and landing carpet are fitted, just in case the fitters scuff the 'new' paint.

Thanks for all your input =D> =D>


Nick

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I used Dulux Once Satinwood .... once. It looks lovely, and marks while you're looking at it.

 

[Marineboy]

I use Valspar water based eggshell. Does it for me.