Oak newel posts, cladding, handrails and glass.

[basssound]

So I am in the middle of redecorating the hallway, stairs and landing.
This has been a long on going project due to funds and time but up to yet I've made some under stairs pull out cupboards and started to enclose the boiler.

The next part is to replace the original loose and badly damaged down stairs newel post for a solid oak newel.

Here's a couple of pictures of the task in hand.

Now as can see the stringer is badly damaged from the loose newel, the first picture shows the damaged tenon which the bottom 'tooth' has been pushed back in.

I plan to router out the damaged timber to the line on the first picture and glue on a new section of timber to replace the tenon, I'm not cutting off the stringer but taking away the left half as shown on the second picture.

What glue would you suggest to use for gluing on a new section, would a normal PVA work if its strongly clamped or screwed as well or should I be looking for a PU glue?

 

[MikeG.]

(Newel).

PVA will be fine for your plan. In fact, I doubt anything else would be as good. Your difficulty will be in getting a flat face on the remnant bit of string in the middle of the scarf/ half-lap joint. However.........

............I'm not convinced your plan is a good one. The issue is that this is the weight bearing point of the whole staircase. Presuming the other string is screwed to a wall, this end of the string/ newel post junction bears half the dead weight of the stair, plus half of all the live weights of people walking up and down the stairs. I think you need to take the pressure off this new joint by relieving it of the weight-bearing duties, perhaps by building in something behind the string just uphill from your new join, which takes the weight down to the floor. This will need a joint, not just a glue-&-screw approach, otherwise you'll have creaking and moving stairs in no time at all.

 

[Mike Jordan]

I think the best method would be to cut back the string to the next riser up and fit a bull nose step at the bottom. This will allow you to make a new tenon and avoid a very iffy joint in the string.
If you remove the bottom step completely and the second riser there will be plenty of working room to cut the tenon and fit the newel. I suggest that you fit an (18 mm minimum thickness plywood )right angle brace between the bottom of the second tread and the rear face of the newel post. If you take this right across the underside of the tread and down to the floor on the newel side.Glued and screwed in place using fixing battens this will really firmly hold the newel plumb.
The little metal bracket shown in the photo has very little chance of making a solid job.
The tenon can be bare faced with a router used from the outside face of the string before you cut off the surplus bit of string.
This method allows you to complete the job without having to make or gain access to the back face of the staircase. The second riser can be replaced from the front face using battens screwed in place.
Mike.

 

[basssound]

The stairs has weight bearing posts all the way up for my built in cupboards.
Hopefully most of the weight has been transferred to these.
I do have the option of fitting another foot to the back of the stringer behind the bottom step of required to help the oak newel joint.

 

[basssound]

I think the best method would be to cut back the string to the next riser up and fit a bull nose step at the bottom. This will allow you to make a new tenon and avoid a very iffy joint in the string.
If you remove the bottom step completely and the second riser there will be plenty of working room to cut the tenon and fit the newel. I suggest that you fit an (18 mm minimum thickness plywood )right angle brace between the bottom of the second tread and the rear face of the newel post. If you take this right across the underside of the tread and down to the floor on the newel side.Glued and screwed in place using fixing battens this will really firmly hold the newel plumb.
The little metal bracket shown in the photo has very little chance of making a solid job.
The tenon can be bare faced with a router used from the upside face of the string before you cut off the surplus bit of string.
This method allows you to complete the job without having to make or gain access to the back face of the staircase. The second riser can be replaced from the front face using battens screwed in place.
Mike.

Sorry Mike I was typing the reply whilst you replied.
I like your idea a lot, especially the bottom bull nose step.
Any chance of a drawing or two to aid your description, I'll be brutally honest, I'm a HGV mechanic/technician (anyone says fitter and I'll fit you!) but I'm very handy with my hands and I'm looking at options to get into the wood working/carpenter trade.

 

[Mike Jordan]

attachment=1]image.jpg[/attachment]Hi Basshound
Sorry about the quality of these, I currently have two computers giving trouble. The best place to look at bull nose steps and similar things is the free online version of Riley's Manual of Carpentry and Joinery. Page 443 shows some versions. If you don't fancy the round version, cropping the corner at 45 degrees will serve at a pinch.
Mike.

 

[basssound]

Spot on that Mike, thank you very much.

 

[basssound]

An hour after Mike's reply...

 

[toolsntat]

An hour after Mike's reply...
]

Just in case, before you get carried away without realising, remember your original replacement newel may be too short now ?
A full bullnose is also a very nice option if hallway width allows it 8)
Will you be looking at drawboring it on, as this makes for a good tight joint ?
Cheers Andy

 

[basssound]

An hour after Mike's reply...
]

Just in case, before you get carried away without realising, remember your original replacement newel may be too short now ?
A full bullnose is also a very nice option if hallway width allows it 8)
Will you be looking at drawboring it on, as this makes for a good tight joint ?
Cheers Andy

You would be perfectly correct, to keep within the 900 - 1000mm handrail regs means I've got to mount the newel to the stringer using Mike's method but on the first riser and not the second.
I can still bare face tenon and brace it in from the back to the floor level incorporating the under side of the first thread.

 

[Mike Jordan]

As toolsntat points out the newel will need to be longer by the height of one riser in order to sit on the floor.
Mike.

 

[toolsntat]

By going full bullnose, you can still mount the newel on the 2nd riser.
Make and anchor a built up solid bottom tread/riser and stub tenon the newel into this. ie, treat the tread as the floor.
Cheers Andy