Not too shiny sharpening.

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Wet & dry on float glass

Good Grief David, when are you going to start using dry wall mesh instead! It is a jolly good thing you have contacted us for advice. We have plenty of great ideas here, 220 grit dry wall mesh being just one of them

Advantages: lies flat (unlike that curly piece of w&d you had in your sharpening video), is easily cleaned and does not clog with water or residues.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[David C]

Derek,

Thanks, I will have to try it.

David Charlesworth

 

[Shady]

Derek - i've seen that mentioned on US boards. Hate to reveal my ignorance, but what exactly is 'drywall mesh'??

 

[Anonymous]

Shiny is certainly a nice visual marker that you've 'gotten there' although not an absolute necessity as others have pointed out.

For curiosity's sake, why don't you take the blade you have through your old sandpaper on glass routine and report back as to shine and sharpness.

I've never been revved up much about waterstones from the standpoint of the bath they have to have and keeping them flat seems a bother. A lot of folks flatten waterstones on sandpaper or some other stone which seems ridiculous to me since the logic appears to be that you have to have a sharpening system already in place to keep the waterstones flat. In other words, if you use sandpaper or abrasives on glass to keep a waterstone flat why not simply use them in the first place? The efficacy of these other methods has never been in question that I am aware of.

 

[Shady]

cstanford, the problem that some have reported with paper on glass etc is that you can round over the ultimate edge, unless you are very careful/lucky.

The belief is that, unlike stones, paper can 'ride up' a little, almost like a bow wave, in front of the edge, where a stone can't.

All tools need fettling for optimal efficiency, stones are no different..

 

[Noel]

I've been using scary sharp for some years now and would recommend it to anybody. For some it'll be sufficient for their needs, for others it's just not dynamic enough. Obviously start-up costs are minimal compared to a full set of waterstones and with the common availibility of W & D up to 2,500 grit a good polished edge can be obtained. There are a few downsides: W & D paper renewal on a regular basis, the possibility of a rounded edge due to the "bow wave" as mentioned by Shady, generally W & D paper (the regular stuff anyway) is a composition of various sized grit and this presents quite an uneven surface for the tool edge and can result in a serrated edge.
Personally I plan to go back to waterstones in the next few days as I believe a superior edge can be achieved. Soaking for the lower grits (King) will be a slight nuisance although the polishing grits (Norton) will only need a quick spray of water.

Noel

 

[Shady]

Noel: if you can absorb the price differential, that's probably the major advantage of the Shaptons - whatever grit, they only need misting just before use. I love them, but tend toward DC's comment - even with Shaptons, I'll flatten either before or after each use....

 

[Midnight]

now me.. I canna afford to look at Norton's... and Shaptons... sheesh...

I was wairy of the Kings to start with; DC's books being my intro to them, but I figured anything would be better than the oil stone I'd been abusing up to then...
I started out with the Veritas stone pond c/w 800 and 6000 grit stones... learned how to get the most from them without making too much mess before expanding the range of stones for faster cutting or finer polishing..

The spanner in the works came when I bought the #112... blade way wider than the stones, so I've bought a few more that accomidate it.

DC's video's have had more than a few eurika moments... reading how its done is one thing.. seeing is a different ballgame alltogether (although I'm near positive there's some fancy editing involved in getting them pencil lines on the stones to vanish so quickly...) I'm far from perfect in as far as flattening the stones at any rate, but I'm getting there..

I've found the softness of the Kings to be an advatage in a way... mistakes happen... wouldn't be the first time I've tipped over the edge and gouged the stone... their softness makes polishing it out a breeze.. messy but forgiving at the same time...

As for which is "best".. I'd ask.. whichever you're happy with; bottom line is the only thing that matters is the quality of the edge they produce...

tried the ruler trick for the first time tonight... impressed.?? HELL yeaaaaaa... David... I owe you.. :wink:

 

[Noel]

Shapton? Took alot of advice on these and read up about them. My conclusion was that they were certainly a premium stone at a premium price. Other than the cost of the stones themselves I wasn't prepared to drop another small fortune on a lapping plate or similar. Think I'll be happy with King / Norton set up.

Noel

 

[Jake]

"Drywall mesh" is presumably mesh abrasive for filler/plaster, like 3M's which is available from CSM. Mesh so it doesn't clog, for it's original application. CSM's site is down, or I would have posted a link.

 

[Midnight]

I wasn't prepared to drop another small fortune on a lapping plate or similar

I remember having a quick look at their finest grade stone... canna remember if it was 15 or 30 thou... one look at the price and I closed the page in a hurry... L-N's is one thing....but sheeshhhhh.....

 

[Shady]

Midnight, noel - I quite agree on the lapping plate and ludicrous grit stones...

I stopped at 8000 grit, and use the 'ice bear' ceramic truing stone from axminster for flattening them (cost me about 8 quid, IIRC). As I was trying to say (but obviously failing to communicate...) the real advantage is speed and neatness in use, because they don't need to soak beforehand.

 

[Frank D.]

I have a coarse shapton that I use for flattening backs, but I use scary sharp to flatten the stone :lol: . Actually I just glued some 80 grit wet dry on a piece of glass, and I sprinkle some coarse carborundum on it so the sandpaper actually acts like a substrate for the carborundum. I can flatten it very quickly and easy this way, and the stone stays true a very long time (I have a King 220 also... the shapton stays flat forever compared to it). It doesn't cut as quickly as my diamond plates but they aren't good for backs anyway. One day I'll be brave enough to try the ruler trick. Actually I'm even starting to give my grinder fleeting looks when I gather my blades to go sharpen in the kitchen...

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Shady wrote:

what exactly is 'drywall mesh'??

I am so used to American terminology I forget to use what is more typically used in Oz and, probably, the UK. It is used to sand down the joins in plasterboard walls. It is the size of a 1/2 sheet of sandpaper and looks like a grey small-grid mesh.

Have a look at the following recent post here on my "waterstone board": https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5279

and more closely at http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au ... entid=8845

This picture has a close up of the mesh.

One advantage is that it lies flat and stiff (switch off those thoughts! :shock: ) and, if you fix the one side, you can lift the other to swab off the surface every now-and-then. Unlike sandpaper, it does not gunk up (technical term). 220 grit is great on all my King stones (800 - 8000).

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Anonymous]

Shiny is certainly a nice visual marker that you've 'gotten there' although not an absolute necessity as others have pointed out.

For curiosity's sake, why don't you take the blade you have through your old sandpaper on glass routine and report back as to shine and sharpness.

I've never been revved up much about waterstones from the standpoint of the bath they have to have and keeping them flat seems a bother. A lot of folks flatten waterstones on sandpaper or some other stone which seems ridiculous to me since the logic appears to be that you have to have a sharpening system already in place to keep the waterstones flat. In other words, if you use sandpaper or abrasives on glass to keep a waterstone flat why not simply use them in the first place? The efficacy of these other methods has never been in question that I am aware of.

Not a problem. I have used jap waterstones for years and never had them standing in a bath. I soak the course ones for 10 minutes in the kitchen sink before use and the fine ones should never be immersed in water anyway; on ejust sprays them.

To flatten takes 10 seconds. I place a piece of 120 grit sandpaper on a flat surface (piece of MDF etc.) and rub the toe over it a couple of times.

Easy and quick all round.

As far as cost goes, I bought a wide dual 1000/6000 waterstone from Dieter Schmid http://www.fine-tools.com/index.htm about 3 years ago for £25 and still use it as my main sharpening stone

 

[Alf]

I remember having a quick look at their finest grade stone... canna remember if it was 15 or 30 thou... one look at the price and I closed the page in a hurry... L-N's is one thing....but sheeshhhhh.....

You could argue it makes more sense to drop a bundle on getting your sharpening right than dropping it on a plane... I wouldn't argue that, but you could... :wink: :lol:

Flattening eh? Well my oil stone gets flattened regularly, whether it needs it or not. Once every couple of months or so.... :wink: Mind you, I do seriously wonder if honing freehand doesn't help in that regard, in that I can spread the wear across the stone much more easily. Dunno, but I'm certainly not tempted to try waterstones again at the moment. :?

Cheers, Alf

 

[Chris Knight]

I'm certainly not tempted to try waterstones again at the moment.

I keep reading all this enthusiastic stuff for waterstones and periodically I do get tempted. I fill the stone pond with clean water, I soak my waterstones, flatten them and then I sharpen my blades and then I wonder why I bothered. It is a messy tiresome business and I get the feeling we've all been had..

 

[Sharpdon]

Normally I just use a sheet of glass with sand paper up to 2000 Grit and this usually gives a very nice shiny back, but is a bit slow.

In my research when developing the Lap-Sharp sharpening system, I learned Silicon Carbide breaks down very quickly and then begins to burnish the tool which is why it gets shiny. The waterstones and other Aluminum Oxide grits do not break down as quickly, and keep cutting metal. This is why the tool is still dull rather than shiny as when you used wet or dry paper. Aluminum Oxide is available with PSA adhesive on thin film backing. The thin film does not compress, so will keep the backs flat and not rounded. The grit on this microfinishing film has a consistency of about 98% rather than wet or dry at 55%.
For additional information on some of this research, see:
http://www.woodartistry.com/images/Wood ... ocess2.pdf

 

[Anonymous]

cstanford, the problem that some have reported with paper on glass etc is that you can round over the ultimate edge, unless you are very careful/lucky.

The belief is that, unlike stones, paper can 'ride up' a little, almost like a bow wave, in front of the edge, where a stone can't.

All tools need fettling for optimal efficiency, stones are no different..

Simply use Elmers spraymount. Spray the back of the paper and let it set for about five minutes then press it onto the glass. I have never had a problem with buckling. Waiting five minutes makes the bond strong but not so strong that it's a major pain to remove later.

That said, I have returned to oilstones except for rough grinds where I simply lay a sheet of 60 grit on the benchtop and have at it.

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Sharpdon

Welcome to the forum.

Cheers
Neil