Norm in Hand Tool Shocker

[big soft moose]

but... the satisfaction one gets from making hand cut dovetails that fit just so ...

thats because you can in my case the only way i can get dovetails that dont have gaps big enough to drive a coach and four through is to use a router and jig (and even then its not a guarantee of success)

 

[wizer]

I'm not sure if the mods here have been given access to see a users IP address (probably, but not necessarily). Plus I know a certain user knows his way around proxy servers for spoofing his IP. So until they're absolutely sure, I think it's probably wise for the mods not to go in heavy handed. Otherwise the controversialists will only start harping on. Which is just more food for the trolls. Jacob's right. Just bloody ignore him!

 

[mtt.tr]

Why do these people never show work that they have done just criticise

 

[big soft moose]

Why do these people never show work that they have done just criticise

probably because they dont really have any work to show - we have another one in the turning forum who alledgedly is a proffesional turner - but in his early posts he was advising people to remove all the bark from wood for better drying - which tells us how experienced he really is.

trouble with the internet is that any fool can start posting and claim to be a pro turner or full time cabinet maker with an international reputation - but just because they claim it does that make it true ???

BSM (international man of mystery, millionaire playboy, and full time love god..... honest guv :lol: )

 

[wizer]

yes, my back problems and seeming lack of basic skills is just a façade, I'm really the bastard love child of Alan Peters

 

[BradNaylor]

At the risk of being accused of 'troll-feeding' I have to say I kind of agree with him!

One of the most skilled cabinetmakers in the country is Bill O'Neill, who has his workshop a couple of miles from mine. You won't have heard of him, because he is uninterested in limelight, preferring instead to just get on with his exquisite work for very wealthy private clients. He doesn't have a website and doesn't even photograph a lot of his projects, as this could impinge on his clients' privacy.

Bill doesn't dovetail his drawers. He considers dovetails ugly, showing off, and a waste of time. Instead he mitres his drawers with secret splines. There is no visible sign of a joint at all.

Far classier!

 

[Eric The Viking]

I also hope no one comes onto the hand tools forum and says we shouldn't be talking endlessly about hand tools and how to use them and keep them sharp. I

On which note, I've just spent ages (squared) getting plane iron and chisel backs flat. Something that started as an act of desperation has turned out to be really useful:

I now stick blocks of wood on the bevel side of the irons, temporarily, with double-sided tape. It means I can exert better pressure, keeping them flatter and scuffing the paper less often. It also means I have something immediately handy to lay them down on when I'm cleaning the wet'n'dry.

I've just done a Dakota spokeshave blade that way, and I can't see how I might have managed it otherwise, as it's too small. It's very hard steel (A2, possibly, but it's not marked), and was quite grooved on the back from the factory grind. It actually made a buzzing noise over 320grit paper, which was evidently catching in the grooves. In the normal way could either have pressed it down, or rubbed it around, but not both together! Having a block on top meant I could get a reasonable polish behind the cutting edge, and I successfully removed the serrations.

Also, I use a big magnet (from an old hard disk) in double plastic bags, to pull the filings off the surface, then vacuum. When it's too furry, I carefully peel the outer bag off, by turning it inside out, leaving the filings inside and the magnet clean for the next go. The second bag is insurance, as you *cannot* remove the filings if they get onto the magnet itself.

I bought a good book on sharpening recently, but it didn't mention either of these ideas.

HTH (but probably more of me telling Granny, etc.)

 

[NickUrquhart]

Re the sharpening book, David Fink's book on planes is an excellent guide to the main techniques for good edge results.
The magnet trick is one that works well with the rotary waterstone, but i tape a rare earth magnet to the bottom of the water trough and it does a great job of keeping all the filings away from the wheel.
Have you had any issues with rounding your edge when flattening the backs on paper using pressure? One of my real pains was just getting a blade to cutting sharpness, only to give it one last back rub on the 6000 waterstone, then losing the edge. I found that too much downward pressure was causing the edge to sink into the slurry and rounding the back edge so that i could see light roll over toward the bevel.
Out of interest what paper would you recommend? I recently tried some Mirka, but the finer grits tend to rub off the abrasive and glue.
cheers, Nick.

 

[Benchwayze]

Have you had any issues with rounding your edge when flattening the backs on paper using pressure? One of my real pains was just getting a blade to cutting sharpness, only to give it one last back rub on the 6000 waterstone, then losing the edge. I found that too much downward pressure was causing the edge to sink into the slurry and rounding the back edge so that i could see light roll over toward the bevel.
Out of interest what paper would you recommend? I recently tried some Mirka, but the finer grits tend to rub off the abrasive and glue.
cheers, Nick.

Hi Nick,

Welcome to the Forum.

I once spent a lot of time polishing the backs of my chisels and plane irons. Like you, I had the problem of 'turning' the edges, with those last few strokes over the fine stone.

I remembered the problem of 'turned edge' from my telescope making days, and realised this was a similar problem, with the cause being much as you describe. I decided that for planes and chisels I could do without a mirror finish. It's mainly cosmetic and the difference in the edge between mirror-back and fine ground is minimal. In effect the advantages outweighed the work I was putting in. (As you get older, this mindset settles in!)

So now, I merely ensure the backs are flat. I am satisfied with a 'matt' finish, as long as there is enough shine to give me a reflection I can use. (When paring 45 degree joints on inlay banding for instance.) Not polishing saves a lot of time too and my planes and chisels still cut without effort.

HTH and Happy working

John

 

[NickUrquhart]

Thanks for the welcome John, much appreciated. Been meaning to join for years. While we're talking tools, i'm after a bench type disc sander with a good right angle fence, any thoughts on what i should go for or avoid? I recently bought a Proxxon ozi delta sander, thinking it would be good for squaring up endgrain. After quite a few stubborn attempts, denying to myself that i had slipped up by buying it, i realised it isn't what i need. Anyone have first hand experience of the Axminster type combo belt/disc machines?
all the best, Nick.

 

[woodbloke]

Have you had any issues with rounding your edge when flattening the backs on paper using pressure? One of my real pains was just getting a blade to cutting sharpness, only to give it one last back rub on the 6000 waterstone, then losing the edge. I found that too much downward pressure was causing the edge to sink into the slurry and rounding the back edge so that i could see light roll over toward the bevel.
Out of interest what paper would you recommend? I recently tried some Mirka, but the finer grits tend to rub off the abrasive and glue.
cheers, Nick.

Hi Nick,

Welcome to the Forum.

I decided that for planes and chisels I could do without a mirror finish. It's mainly cosmetic and the difference in the edge between mirror-back and fine ground is minimal. In effect the advantages outweighed the work I was putting in. (As you get older, this mindset settles in!)

So now, I merely ensure the backs are flat. I am satisfied with a 'matt' finish, as long as there is enough shine to give me a reflection I can use. (When paring 45 degree joints on inlay banding for instance.) Not polishing saves a lot of time too and my planes and chisels still cut without effort.

HTH and Happy working

John

John - I agree, it is a lot of work to get the backs of chisels polished (try Jap ones ) but once they are done, it's easy enough to keep them polished with the benefits of a sharper edge.

Nick - welcome to the forum. Fwiw, I kicked waterstones into touch years ago. I now use the 3M papers from Workshop Heaven on a large lump of 10mm glass which works for me. It's a far better way of gaining a super sharp and shiny edge IMHO...I'm now using the finest paper which is .3micron (that's about 18000g...I think)

...and who is this Norm geezer anyway? - Rob

 

[NickUrquhart]

Cheers Rob, much appreciated.

3 micron, that is fine, you could start selling your blades to NASA for their telescope mirrors. To be honest, it was a magical moment for me when things moved on from the hills and valleys of old oilstones. Must admit that it still impresses the hell out of me to pick up the 4 1/2 with Hock, knowing it won't let me down. Would you say that you've seen major practical differences in the quality of cut since you binned the waterstones?

Re the scry/sharp method, I'll have to try and find some 10mm float glass from somewhere and give it a try next week, it sounds like something worth learning. I've still got a decade old pile of fiddleback Maple boards that needs confronting. What angle jig do you think the most of?

all the best, Nick.

 

[chingerspy]

I've currently got some wet and dry strips double sticked to 18mm MDF. I'll most likely up this homebrew system to the WSH scarey sharp kit soon.

The adhesive/abrasive wears pretty quickly on Halfords wet n dry, especially in the finer grades. It would be nice to know if the 3M sheets last longer. Mainly so I know if I should order more sheets when ordering the kit.

 

[NickUrquhart]

Hi chingerspy, the Mirka does exactly the same, which leaves messy black smudges, and also a pain when you use the 1000/2000 grits on a light wood like Beech. From what i know, Mirka are pretty top end in wetndry paper, so probably just a characteristic of the fine particle/adhesive combo. Will pick-up some 3m and see if it performs differently.
cheers, Nick.

 

[jimi43]

It would be nice to know if the 3M sheets last longer. Mainly so I know if I should order more sheets when ordering the kit.

It lasts absolutely ages...can be washed out in soapy water and is superb stuff!

I works fantastic on wood too!

I buy big(ish) sheets from FleaBay....would recommend it to anyone.

Jim

 

[chingerspy]

Good to know Jim thanks. I checked fleabay earlier and found that WSH were the only ones selling the 3M PSA sheets Looks like Matthew will be getting some of my money next month.

 

[jimi43]

Good to know Jim thanks. I checked fleabay earlier and found that WSH were the only ones selling the 3M PSA sheets Looks like Matthew will be getting some of my money next month.

Matthew is your man! I use Micromesh with the Veritas II honing jig....they are a great combination.

I just finished the handle for the woodie restoration I am doing over on that thread....and I hit it with 80g...then 120g then 240g then 400g at which point I switch to Micromesh 1500 and take it up to 12000...no finish is necessary...so I can still smell the rosewood each time I use it...

It's lovely stuff. The whole lot was rosewood impregnated when I finished...just washed it in soapy water and laid it out to dry.

Job done!

Jim

 

[chingerspy]

Beautiful Jim! I was wondering how the tote was coming along

I was going to get the Veritas II jig also, looks like one of the better ones to me. I'm doing it bye hand/eye right now but I reckon I can definately do a better job with a guide. I have a sharp edge but not one I'm scared of

 

[jimi43]

I think that "scary" is a bit of a marketing thing but it certainly is the cheapest effective way of honing. The honing jig is fine if you can't hand hone very well (like me) but it has its limitations as reviews indicate.

It is certainly better than the old Stanley one I had...that's for sure and easy to put a microbevel on.

I do use Micromesh to hone my new Jap chisel and THAT is scary as hell!

You know when you touch a razor...THAT scary!!

But I do that by hand.

Jim

 

[chingerspy]

Yeah I understand that but it will be interesting to find out how different the sharpness may be.

I've gone from oilstone to wet n dry both hand honed since new year. Now that I have more blades (ever increasing!) I think its about time I got a nice jig at the very least and start playing with back bevels and such.

Actually the more I think about it, the more I am realising that money may be pretty tight next month so I may just stick with the jig then splurge on the SS kit in the summer (blimey that came around quick!).