non sticky glue

[sunnybob]

I posted this a few days ago but it appears to have been swallowed by a black hole, (or maybe nolegs locked it in the bog with his new wind up bolt).

I need a different glue for my summer woodworking. I use Bison D3 for everything and its grips well. Trouble is in the summer it grips too well. Once the temp goes over 30c its like evostick contact. instant grab, zero adjustment times and I barely need clamps.

Any suggestions for a glue with more adjustment time please?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Cascamite (or generic uf's). You can ****** the grab and setting time a little by spraying the joints with water first - I've used pva perfectly successfully after dunking the parts in water quickly (although I've not had the finished item stress tested).
I came across this by chance, it's quite informative -
http://shropshire-woodsmiths.co.uk/woodglue-test/

 

[Beau]

Polyurathane

Can you get Balcotan there? I used it for years and think it was imported by some guys who had been boat building in Greece who moved to the UK and could no longer get it so became importers to the UK.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

There is a short reference to Balcotan here - http://shropshire-woodsmiths.co.uk/woodglue-test/

 

[sunnybob]

That chart is very interesting.
According to it Balcotan is an irritant and marks the skin indelibly and gives off noxious fumes. Shant be using that one. I'm too old to be breathing in and handling noxious stuff.
the rest need specific mixing which is no good to me as I glue little by little and wastage would be extreme.

Titebond 3 looks to be the best for my purposes. I've seen titebond in a superstore about a dozen miles away, dont know which numbers they have but looks like i'm going for a ride.
thanks phil.

 

[AndyT]

Maybe traditional hot hide glue would be the answer? It's still available and non-toxic. You don't have to buy a proper double-skinned gluepot - lots of people say they use an electric baby bottle warmer and a plastic cup.

In the UK, old books describe how it's necessary to warm boards in front of the fire before gluing, so that cold wood doesn't chill the glue too much. I don't think you'd have that problem! With all your boards nice and warm, the temperature difference between wood and glue will be small, so open time will be long enough to be controllable.

 

[Beau]

That chart is very interesting.
According to it Balcotan is an irritant and marks the skin indelibly and gives off noxious fumes. Shant be using that one. I'm too old to be breathing in and handling noxious stuff.
.

No smell, no irritation IME, only one that I found is it does stain the hands just like expanding foam. £3 pack of disposable gloves sorts this. Pretty sure the warnings on the bottle are no different to any other PU glue. Best glue I have ever used and really sorry I cant get it anymore.

 

[transatlantic]

I wish there was a PVA glue that had an open time of around 30 minutes. I don't know why we need glues with open times of only 10 minutes, it seems like it causes more stress than anything. And surely with open times that short, it means you have to glue things up in sections, which takes longer than just having a longer open time and doing it all at once?

 

[PAC1]

Titebond also do an extended glue with a 24 hour cure time. Not much use to you Sunnybob, but it is available at Axminster! I have not tried it yet but was thinking of giving a go.

 

[bugbear]

Any suggestions for a glue with more adjustment time please?

If you're googling, the normal term is "open time".

Don't ask me why. I have no idea.

BugBear

 

[sunnybob]

This is very strange. I posted on this thread a couple hours ago, and its vanished. i need to get a moderator involved.

Titebond 3 looks to be what I need. I dont do enough gluing at any one time to warrant mixing up batches of anything. I would be wasting 90% or more.

Lets see if this post survives.

 

[memzey]

I've used titebond extend in the past and it works a treat. Definitely a longer open time than regular titebond or titebond 2. Similar to titebond 3 but extend leaves a light glue line (when visible) whereas TB3's line is very dark. I was laminating pine boards for my bench first time I used It:

As the wood and the glue were both light coloured (and the staves were adequately dressed and cramped) the glue lines were barely perceptible:

 

[ED65]

I need a different glue for my summer woodworking. I use Bison D3 for everything and its grips well. Trouble is in the summer it grips too well. Once the temp goes over 30c its like evostick contact. instant grab, zero adjustment times...

Try an experiment Bob: thin some D3 with water 10% and see if it helps. After drying test the joint destructively to see if you're still getting a strong bond.

You can increase dilution to about 20-25% if you find 10% helps some, but at 25% or greater you're likely to be compromising bond strength too much. Again test strength after thorough drying.

...and I barely need clamps.

Regardless of the grab you do need to clamp if you want to rely on your glue joints. PVAs need high clamp pressures to effectively bond wood.

 

[sunnybob]

Last year I tried spraying the surfaces with water, gave me about another 10 seconds. I darent spray more or the grain will raise.
I do still clamp the pieces, but they are unmovable within 30 seconds of touching, clamped or not.

Again, I cant mix water and glue in advance because then I'm back to massive wastage when i only want to run about a 6 inch line of glue.

 

[RobinBHM]

'Non sticky glue' -is that an oxymoron?

 

[ED65]

Bob, diluting the glue shouldn't introduce any greater wastage. If you discover thinning helps you can make up a small squeeze bottle of diluted glue and dole out from that instead of the original D3 bottle.

If it doesn't help at all then obviously never mind that, so how about 1-hour epoxy? Epoxy is famously expensive, but given the typical prices for Titebond glues on this side of the Atlantic you never know, it might work out cheaper!

 

[MatthewRedStars]

Another vote for UF - I've used the brand 'aerolite'. With a 'slow' hardener it can take hours to go off even on a warm day.

 

[sunnybob]

Hey, my ox is pretty slow, but I wouldnt go so far as calling it a moron (at least not to its face).

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Another vote for UF - I've used the brand 'aerolite'. With a 'slow' hardener it can take hours to go off even on a warm day.

Aerolite is a superb glue, even if expensive. Developed in the war to glue Mosquitos together. I remember reading an interview years ago with an ex ww2 pilot who was making furniture. When the interviewer asked what glue he used he replied said Aerolite and the interviewer said he didn't rate the stuff, the guy pointed upwards and said it kept me alive for a couple of years up there - it's plenty good enough for my furniture. It is highly rated in the link I posted. I notice on one site it's listed as resorcinol urea formaldehyde, which makes it a little different to standard U/Fs. I haven't looked into hardners, other than trying Cascamite hardner with it and finding them interchangeable - one is formic acid, one phosphoric, I forget now which way round. I've lost the right side of the page again.

 

[sunnybob]

Drat, just been to my wood store and I am positive I saw titebond on the shelf last time, but its not there now.

The other half is off to the UK for a couple weeks tomorrow, I'll get her to bring some tubes back.