Newel Post

[Marineboy]

Hi all. Wasn't sure whether to put this in general chat but hopefully my query is relevant to this forum.

The staircase in my Victorian house has what I think is a cast iron newel post which over the years has been successively painted over to the point where the detail of the casting has been lost. I am therefore looking to removing it, dipping or sandblasting it and refitting, possibly with a coat of wax depending on the state of the metal. The base of the post is a bit wobbly so I was intending to fit that more firmly into the base, at the same time as replacing the stair spindles with a style more akin to what would have been in place initially.

To remove the post I was planning to cut through the banister at the point of the joint in photo 3. This would enable me to lift up the post and the 4 associated spindles once I have cut through the round plate at the base where it attaches to the timber cylinder sitting on the floorboards.

My query is: does this sound feasible and how do I ensure that what I do does not weaken the integrity of the banister?

 

[Brentingby]

Do you know how the iron post is fixed in place? I would consider cutting the spindles instead of the rail. Since you are planning to replace them, they are sacrificial.You might be able to cut just the few at the bottom and lift the rail enough to get the newel post out. Perhaps remove alternate spindles as you replace them so you don't change the position of the rail.

 

[Marineboy]

Thanks for the reply. The post is fixed at the top with screws which I've removed but I don't know how it is fixed at the bottom. I want that fixing to be as robust as possible when I put the post back to stabilise the banister. But the idea of chopping out the spindles to give enough play to get the post out is a good one.

 

[Brentingby]

It could be fixed with screws from below--can you get a finger or two in there or a mirror to see? Or maybe there's a tenon of sorts. If you can lift the post a little, you should be able to make that determination.

 

[deema]

They would normally be just butted together and screwed to the iron, the iron providing the stability so that a tennon wasn't required. However it may also be glued, which would have been animal glue. This will easily come apart if warmed up. A very thin spatula warmed up....the glue melted below the boiling point of water so not red hot...and eased into the joint will tell you if it's got a tenon. Firstly release the banister from the iron railings keeping just a couple of screws in place to enable you to wiggle the bottom piece. I would again work around the joint with a very thin spatula and then use a steamer / kettle to get steam into the joint. With a bit of patience it will all come apart.

 

[Jacob]

I'd do it in situ with paint stripper. Fiddly job but a lot easier than your proposals.
Or just leave it be - the details aren't necessarily very fine.
What makes you think the balusters aren't original? They look very much of the period to me.
Absolutely the last thing you should do is cut through the banister rail - you run the risk of spoiling the whole job and it's the finest feature - a beautiful bit of woodwork with the polish of many years on it.
Basic rule of restoration is to do absolutely as little as possible/necessary. If you over-do it it'll never be the same again and there will be no going back.
You don't know what you've got til it's gone, as the song says!
You might find that a few of the balusters are iron, with a bracket top and bottom. This will tell you that they are all original. From the photo they certainly look that way and it's unlikely they would ever have been replaced.

ps if it's wobbly it'll be the block, which appears to be split. It might be possible to pull it up tight if you could clean out the gap and then run bolts through (counter-sunk or in pockets to be filled with putty), or clamped up tight and fixed with long coach screws, etc etc.

A warning to all would be restorers http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/2 ... 21389.html :

 

[hawkeyefxr]

I have always used Nitromoors for paint stripping, you brush it on and leave for 10 or 15 minutes and the paint pickles and will just about fall off.
You can get it at BnQ, wear goggles, gloves and old clothes and just be careful with it. No kids about either it is extremely strong paint stripper but it will be perfect for cast iron. Sandblasting may damage it.
It could be carefully used in situ, extra thick polythene also from BnQ.
Please be very careful with it!

 

[Marineboy]

Thanks for all your replies. I did think about stripping It in situ but wasn't sure if it would be as effective as removing it but I will certainly consider it. Jacob - you make a very valid point re the principles of restoration, and I do appreciate the value of that banister, the patina it has acquired is amazing and I don't know what ever made me think of cutting it. The reason I thought the spindles were not original was that they look too plain, I had the idea that Victorian ones would be more elaborate. I might still replace them. Re the block at the base, I did a couple of years back put a couple of screws in to tighten it up but I could do a more thorough job and that would make the whole thing more robust.

 

[sunnybob]

A warning to all would be restorers http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/2 ... 21389.html :

Good point jacob, that pic on the right is AWFUL!

 

[Jacob]

.... The reason I thought the spindles were not original was that they look too plain, I had the idea that Victorian ones would be more elaborate. .....

You find all sorts of patterns used, and those plain ones are very common, with the Georgians too - they tended to be less fussy. Personally I like them and they emphasise the quality of the hand rail. It'd be very difficult to replace them properly and I think would be a big mistake.

 

[Marineboy]

Thanks Jacob, I respect your knowledge and opinion. As there is a crack in the block under the post I will have a go at detaching one half of it complete with the post. If this isn't feasible I will revert to the in situ approach.

 

[Marineboy]

I took off the 4 spindles around the post so I could get a better look. I removed the screws securing the top of the post to the underside of the banister end (technically termed the volute, I believe). I then found that the volute would rotate upwards giving enough room to lift the post upwards. However, the post was firmly attached to the base. So, back to plan B, i.e. strip the post in situ.

2 hours work with Nitromors, hot air gun and scrapers saw the post back to metal...or nearly. Under the gazillion layers of white paint was a brown coat of something. Possibly anti corrosion layer? At this point I decided that waxing the bare metal was not going to work so decided on a black satin finish. Photo shows first coat of Hammerite. I must say I am quite pleased, and I am in two minds whether to replace the 4 spindles. They get in the way of the visual appeal of the post and add nothing to the stability of the banister. One to sleep on.

 

[AndyT]

Nice work.
If it was mine, I'd replace the spindles like it was. The iron post looks too skinny on its own.

 

[Jacob]

Brown coat perhaps brown enamel or just brown paint. It was a popular colour!.

 

[Marineboy]

Yes, the more I look at it the more I agree with you AndyT re replacing the spindles. The black will be a nice contrast with the white.

 

[Marineboy]

In the end decided to replace the spindles for the whole staircase. I got them from Pear Stairs (recommended). They are 35mm in section, existing ones are 24 x 28 and are located in a socket of the same size in each tread, so I had to create stub tenons at the base of each new spindle. Tedious but once I had set up the fence and jigs on the bandsaw it was not a difficult job.

Photo shows first ones fitted around the post. Personally I like the contrast between the black and white. Only another 52 to fit! The other photo shows a kind of story stick I've bodged up. The sliding top bit carries an adjustable piece of ply so I can get the exact length and top angle of each spindle.

 

[ColeyS1]

I admire the skill involved in fitting the new ones, but tbh prefer the original ones. I suppose it might look more in keeping when the rest of them are done.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[Jacob]

I admire the skill involved in fitting the new ones, but tbh prefer the original ones....

Me too. Seems pointless to me.

 

[Marineboy]

Oh well, each to their own.

Seeing them in the flesh as opposed to a photo, the current ones look a bit spindly (excuse the pun) and plain. I prefer the more substantial look of the replacements together with the slightly greater ornamentation. I probably wouldn't have considered doing it were I not planning to redecorate the hall and stairs, removing umpteen layers of paint on the staircase in the process.