newbie sharpening carving gouges

[cornucopia]

hello folks- i would like to do more carving on my woodturned vessels similar in style to Liam flynn's excellent work
I have bought two gouges a 3/8" and a 5/8" Kirschen Straight Gouge - 11 Sweep (are these good gouges?) They have been deliverd blunt what would you reccomend to sharpen them with? I use a tormek for my woodturning tools but i dont belive this will be good enough edge for my carving gouges. i was wondering about one of these sharpening cones or using silicon carbide paper spray mounted onto mdf for now until i can get some dmt stones.
what do you think?
and do you think as a newbie carver liam flynn style pieces are acheivable?

 

[Jeremys]

Hi Cornucopia,

I tried the cone stones but couldnt get on with them...I found it more difficult to get a consistent angle than from a honing wheel. I know others who use them sucessfully so it is my technique (or lack thereof) rather than anything else.

I use my tormek stone very occasionally after the fine grading stone, but constantly use the profiled honing wheel with the flexcut yellow compound to touch them up. I havent tried the Japenese stone on the tormek, as I also mainly use it to sharpen turning tools so thought the Japenese stone would be too fine.

I also use a homemade strop made from a piece of Lime with all my chisel profiles cut into it...I use this with the yellow honing compound when im in the caravan and cant get away with bringing too many tools with me.

My father (who is a far more accomplished carver than I am) uses one of these mounted in a small cordless drill for when he is out and about....

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Delu ... -32069.htm

I would start with the tormek and see how you go...


Cant really comment on the Liam Flynn style pieces being achievable...Im very much a newbie and haven't got there yet....

 

[matthewwh]

Your tormek will be fine for creating the edge in the first place but you will need to bring it up to a mirror polish if you are to get the best out of your tools.

Ashley Iles recommend a double stitched polishing mop with green honing compound which can easily be powered by a lathe, bench grinder (high speed) or I just use a drill mounted in an engineering vice. The quality of the polishing mop is important for good results (It may only be a matter of a pound or two but this is not the place to save money).

Apply the compound to the running wheel and leave it going for a minute or so to let the compound cool properly. Until you get an ear for it, cover the bevel in black marker so you can see where you've been. Rest the heel of the bevel on the rotating wheel (the top must be rotating away from you) and draw the blade back until you hear the note change as the edge contacts the wheel.

Roll the tool from one side to the other two or three times using the whole width of the wheel and the roll the inner surface lightly over the corner of the wheel to remove the burr.

Take a test cut and repeat if necessary.

I have been experimenting with using this technique on curved plane irons as well lately and it works a treat!

 

[John. B]

Hello Cornucopia
It's a problem I solved a few years ago at one of the shows.
A carver was demonstrating sharpening his gouges on his 2 wheeled grinding machine, slightly different than most machines, it ran backwards to conventional ones.
The wheel he used is about four and a half inches in diameter, made of hard rubber covered with either diamond dust or carborundum dust I can't remember which.
The other wheel is a conventional polishing mop of good quality. He had a small lamp fixed to the top of the machine angled down to the wheel so as you brought the gouge to the wheel it threw a shadow of the blade edge on the surface of the wheel.
You then lowered the blade till the shadow disappeared, rocked it to an fro making sure the shadow did not reappear, that kept the angle constant. A short trip to the mop with which he used a green soap to load with,
a couple of seconds later, a razor sharp gouge.
All this sounds very complicated as I write this but once you get the knack with the shadow it's a piece of cake.
Now. He wanted about £85.00 or £90.00 for the whole unit but sold the wheel and mop for about £25.00. I got a cheap little £16.00 grinder from screwfix reversed the guards the only problem being the switch was then on the far side. (Not a Problem)
a cheap little bendy lamp screwed to one the sides and I was in business
I'll have a search to see if I can find the paperwork on it because I just can not remember his name.
If I find his I'll repost and let you know

John. B

 

[cornucopia]

thankyou for all your replies

 

[Chris Knight]

I would strongly recommend that you DO NOT use a wheel of any kind to sharpen carving chisels until you can do it by hand and understand what is involved. A carving chisel has to be VERY sharp to do good work - far sharper than most folk achieve with regular woodworking tools.

Just as important as sharpness, if not more so, is SHAPE. To perform as intended, carving tools must have particular shapes and without instruction I can guarantee that a beginner will screw up the shape of even a simple gouge in his first sharpening experiences. This unfortunately is what makes a mechanical system so dangerous for a beginner - you have to know how to regulate the SHAPE of the tool as you are sharpening it and this is best learnt when sharpening by hand.

Have a look here for a couple of books that are worth reading on the subject

 

[cornucopia]

oh o.k thankyou-i have a book but not those paticular ones- so back to my original post- how about silicon carbide paper glued onto mdf until i know if i will take to it or not? better than a wheel?
the book i have is this one

 

[Chris Knight]

I don't knw that book I am afraid but my reason for recommending Chris Pye and Wheeler is that they both describe sharpening much better than other carving books I have read.

I suppose you might get an acceptable edge with paper glued to MDF but I wouldn't be too sure, I think the biggest danger is dubbing the corners of the gouge which need to very square and sharp. I am not a fan of waterstones at the best of times and especially not for carving chisels and the cone you link to is one I had and never used as it was not very good. The main problem is that waterstones are really too soft to handle the sort of pressures you apply when sharpening a carving chisel.

Tilgear had a good line in Arkansas stones that were not too expensive I have had three from them that are all good including a very fine translucent stone that is my absolute favourite for the final polishing of an edge. I don't know if they still do these but it's worth enquiring. I think their best stone was about £30 when I got mine. You could use an ordinary oilstone first to get the edge ready for final polishing and then a fine Arkansas stone to get a very good edge. You can also strop with leather and jeweller's rouge once you have achieved a good edge. You will need also a slipstone(s) to sharpen the inside bevel of the gouges.

 

[cornucopia]

thankyou for your help i have orderd chris pye's dvd and book.

 

[wizer]

It's the one thing putting me off carving/turning. Tool sharpening is an art in itself.

 

[cornucopia]

dont let it put you of turning tom, sharpening turning tools is a dead easy and doesnt need to be as precise as what it does for carving tools.

 

[Richard Findley]

Hi cornucopia,

I used to dabble in carving before I discovered turning.

I sharpen on a normal Medium India Oil stone (as you would for normal woodworking chisels) only holding the handle at 90deg to the stone and rolling as you move back and forth. This will get you a nice sharp and square edge but carving tools need to be sharper still!!

Most books talk of stropping so what I did was to buy some chamois from a car shop (as I didn't and still don't know of a leather supplier!!) and glue it to a board. While you're at the car shop buy some metal polish (Autosol I think) and then pop into the chemist and buy some Vaseline (they are opposite each other in Blaby :wink: ) mix some polish with Vaseline and paste it over the leather. The Vaseline keeps the mix live for longer, it would dry out quite quickly on it's own.

Simply draw the gouge back toward yourself whilst rocking to polish the bevel to a mirror finish. Don't worry, it doesn't take long.

I did similar for the inside of the flute by sticking the chamois to various sizes of dowel. A quick rub in the bevel is all you need.

The best test for sharpness is to cut pine. If it cuts cleanly on this it will cut anything!! A few strops occaisionally is all you need to keep the tools razor sharp.

If you want to pop in to the workshop to see my carving stuff you are most welcome, just give me a ring first as it's quite well buried!! I also have quite a library of books on the subject at home.

Cheers, HTH

Richard

 

[cornucopia]

thanks richard i might just do that