New Workshop

[defsdoor]

My old brick shed is now down to ground (neighbour wanted the bricks so we took it down a brick at a time) and I'm just awaiting a skip and some hired hands to remove the remaining rubble, hammer up the floor and remove a load of soil.

I'm looking at a area of approx 7-8m * 4-5m and planning on using beam and block for the floor. Once this is in I will have a nice level area to assemble framing etc..

I've not actually drawn up a design yet as I don't quite know the finished dimensions, but I'm hoping to get it built during the summer months.

In my head I've decided on simple framing (deep enough for good insulation) with vapour barrier framing/insulation, breathable membrane and some form of cladding/exterior covering for the walls.

I'm still undecided on the best form of roof (gable, saltbox or flat) or what to put on top.

I'd welcome any advice, recommendations and suggestions for the build. I've been following the build threads here for some time now so there's plenty of inspiration.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Check your floor area to find what regs. you have to comply with first.

 

[defsdoor]

I've read the planning portal site for out-buildings and if I'm over 30sqm I will need building regs approval. Whilst I'm confident I can build within regs (they seem fairly straightforward ) I'm all for making life easier and sizing this to within that (7m * 4.2m) I need to see how that looks laid out in position though I think.

I'm well within the not-exceeding 50% ground coverage rules and will be 1m away from all boundaries.

My biggest grief is the amount of soil I need to get out. The previous shed's floor is about 18" lower than the adjacent ground level - mostly due to years of leaf fall. It's great soil though.

Skip arrives tomorrow! I'll take some pics of the plot and post them here.

 

[Paul200]

Excellent! A workshop WIP! We like them. Looking forward to pics and progress

 

[Phil Pascoe]

You shouldn't pay to dump decent soil - put some small ads. about. Someone'll be glad of it. I would ... but a 550 mile round trip would be cost prohibitive.

 

[RobinBHM]

I think for planning it is min 2.0m away from boundary for height or if closer then 2.5M at highest point (which usually means a flat roof to achieve decent ceiling height). Then more than 1.0m to avoid fire regs (part of B/regs).

Im in the process of building a shed 5.4 x 2.7M using the following spec:

from outside:

siberian larch feather edge - 25 x 50 tile batten - tyvek housewrap - 18mm osb board - 95 x 45 stud - celetex in between then boarding on inside to follow.

There are some good examples of timber framing on the tyvek site which I used as a basis.

Top soil removal -often cheapestway is grab lorry if you have a suitable space for collection.

 

[mseries]

Top soil removal. Get someone to make some long sausage shaped bags with tied ends and quick release cords. Stitch these into your trouser legs so that the cords can be operated by you hands from inside your pockets. Get some friends to do some gardening in a local park or somewhere, you know a volunteer program or community garden. Then fill the trouser bags with the spoil and walk over their plots, carefully opening the bags while no one is looking, your friends will work the soil into the ground. It's proven to work.

 

[johnny]

or dig a big hole to put it in

I bet if you ask around your neighbours there's bound to be someone that would die for some free topsoil . Maybe do a deal where they help dig it out and remove it from site for you :wink:

I had less to get rid off than you so I filled 25x fertiliser sacks and sold it for £25.00 . My wife reckons I've got more 'neck' than a giraffe :lol:

 

[defsdoor]

This is the plot. Bad photo but it's cold and wet and David Bailey wouldn't come

The green building on the left is next door's shed.

The neighbour at the rear replaced the fence (i wish he had waited) and the plastic sheets are to keep the soil off it - his floor level is much lower than mine. I will dig down to his level (ish) - the beam and block foundation and insulation will bring the building floor back up to approximately lawn level.

The ladder is there as a light bulb needed changing

 

[johnny]

why are you reducing levels across the whole site and putting in a block and beam base ?

For my 4.6m x 3m shed I just dug out some small holes and built up some piers using concrete blocks then built a timber base using treated softwood sleepers from my local timber merchant 250mm x 125mm cheap as chips and last forever. http://www.yarcombewp.com/Categories/63/Softwood-Sleepers.html

It seems to me that there is often a tendancy to 'over-engineer' timber sheds and workshops. There is no need for 4"x2" studwork either. I used 63mm x 38mm for studwork and rafters @ £0.82p a metre !again making considerable savings over using 43mm x 70mm (2" x"3 ") at £2.30 per metre! thats nearly 2/3rds cheaper
http://www.diy.com/departments/cls-planed-unfinished-c16-t38mm-w63mm-l2400mm-pack-of-8/492781_BQ.prd
http://www.diy.com/departments/scant-pl ... 785_BQ.prd

 

[cammy9r]

Nothing wrong with over engineering anything shed like. 4x2 gives a bit more room for insulation if you are using it, 6x2 even more so. I guess it really comes down to square metres floor plan and budget. If you have ten grand for 30 square metres or one grand, i spent just over £3000 all in.
Looks like a good site and looking forward to a detailed WIP.

 

[defsdoor]

I'm open for changing the foundation plans but I really do have a problem with the height the garden has grown over the years before we moved here and cut most of the trees down

I'd really like it to be as warm as possible and for that I need thicker insulation - 80-90mm celotex was the plan - and thicker still on the roof.

The beam and block floor was the suggestion of my builder friend - he's going to supply the labour to lay it. He said it would be simpler and less to clear than a poured concrete base.

Also, the lower I start the less imposing it will be (and therefore troublesome).

 

[johnny]

Nothing wrong with over engineering anything shed like. 4x2 gives a bit more room for insulation if you are using it, 6x2 even more so. I guess it really comes down to square metres floor plan and budget. If you have ten grand for 30 square metres or one grand, i spent just over £3000 all in.
Looks like a good site and looking forward to a detailed WIP.

there is lots of information on the net to help with projects like this so that it is not just guesswork :wink: Its not a question of the thicker the better with insulation. There is a point at which in order to make miniscule gains in thermal resistance you need huge increases in insulant thickness . It just becomes uneconomical .
You need to determine the U value you wish to achieve ,then look at the thermal resistance and conductivity of the insulation you intend to use and that will determine the thickness of material you need.
Celotex have a very helpful pdf to download that gives all the information you need .
http://www.encon.co.uk/sites/default/files/handy-guide-jan-12.pdf

 

[RobinBHM]

Block and beam is an expensive route, it will need a foundation to sit on. Also it wont be flat. The beams are pre stressed so are bowed in the middle allowing for the weight of a screed finish.

I built my shed very close to a small brook so the ground was poor and liable to collapse. I dug holes about 350mm dia ( those near the brook about 1500mm deep) and filled with concrete to form pads ( shuttered at the top so all pads level) then spanned the pads with steel beams. I then laid joists on top. It might be worth doing a cost comparison.

 

[johnny]

s you say Robin pads and beams are the way to go for sure .Steel is still an expensive choice I would go for tannilised sleeper beams personally . They are a lot cheaper and at 250mm x 125mm are massively strong . There is also the added advantage of being able to drill,screw and nail into them and use own labour for economy
Pot and beam or concrete slab floors are just inappropriate for a small timber structure and extremely expensive .

if you use 440mm x 215mm x 215mm hollow concrete blocks you can fill them with concrete to consolidate the pads.
At £2.50 per block and say £30 per 2.4m sleeper beam its not too difficult to cost a base using this method and comparing that with a pot and beam floor and the cost of the builders labour .

 

[RobinBHM]

I used steel I beams as I was so close to the brook, one corner of the shed needed the steels to be cantilevered over the pads by 2'0 or more. I also needed to keep below the 2.5M limit for planning, so steels are slimmer than timber.

With no issues on space, timber beams would work well

The shed I built is 2.7m x 5.4M so I used 4no 2.7M I beams 5" x 3" section, from memory the beams were about £200.00

 

[cammy9r]

Hi defsdoor, what would be the use of the workshop and could a timber floor be used instead. I needed to park a car in mine so timber was out of the question, but the other one will have a timber floor. I had a quick look on the net and 4.2m beams are about £35+vat each, then say a £1 per block plus foundation to support beams. This looks to be around £1000 just for the base, which is fine if there is no problems with that amount. When I did my base, usual type1 then blinding then dpm then concrete it came to £512 for 30m2 with the concrete at 130mm deep. At that thickness it was around 4 cubic metres. I will say it was hard work doing it with a half bag mixer. Ready mix would have been a better option if the base location was easier.
Have you decided on a roof design, someone a while back did a very nice gambrel roof it looked really good and gave plenty headroom and even roof storage but he did go up to the 4m limit in height.


edit: this one new-workshop-build-with-a-difference-t44368.html all the pics are gone

 

[johnny]

I used steel I beams as I was so close to the brook, one corner of the shed needed the steels to be cantilevered over the pads by 2'0 or more. I also needed to keep below the 2.5M limit for planning, so steels are slimmer than timber.


The shed I built is 2.7m x 5.4M so I used 4no 2.7M I beams 5" x 3" section, from memory the beams were about £200.00

Ahhh .....I see why you chose steel now and that is a good price too. :wink: Did it include fabricating brackets gussets welding etc ?...

However timber is still an excellent choice for a cantilever . You just need to do some simple structural calculations to satisfy the Building Control :lol: Provided your beams are of sufficient depth to resist deflection (the UDL and PL within the shed acts as a counter-weight for the cantilever.)
You still have to calculate and prove the structural loading on steel to satisify the BC . i'm a bit rusty now but it shouldn't take more than half an hour to calculate the loadings on timber beams

this might prove useful reading it lists all the advantages of block pier and timber beam foundations for large sheds.
http://www.secrets-of-shed-building.com/shed_pier_foundation.html

 

[defsdoor]

The beam and block was the suggestion of my builder - I'm game for whatever is the best combination of price, simplicity but most important, fit for purpose.

The building will house all my woodworking gear and have a area for my electronics and possibly 3d printer setup (I might leave this in the house).

I could go for a pier'ed wooden floor but this will require complete removal of all the soil. This does have the advantage of simply standing atop of the old shed's concrete floor where it overlaps.

I'll decide definitely once I've cleared the area completely. The skip is half full already and I've hardly touched the rubble so I reckon I will need 2-3 swaps. Totally knackered though.

 

[johnny]

I could go for a pier'ed wooden floor but this will require complete removal of all the soil. h.

why ? not sure why you would need to clear the site of topsoil ? if you are using piers then you just need to dig a small hole for each conc block pier ....unless you need to dig down to reduce the ridge height to comply with planning ?

If I were you if you haven't already done so... do a simple project costing. I did a really thorough costing on my shed and still ended up spending over budget.
You could then do a comparison of pot and beam floor vs a conc pier and timber beam floor . I think you'll be amazed at how much the concrete floor is going to cost you ,both in terms of money and labour time.