New workshop build, with a difference!

[Cegidfa]

Hello xy and Dibs,

Whata mistaka to maka. I should have mentioned that all I am making is a round frame to fit a 'bare' dg unit in.
Originally, I toyed with making opening windows, which would have been an interesting challenge, but I don't think that it will be needed, as the combination of a ventilated roof, the insulation, and a high ceiling, should make for a building that doesn't overheat.....in theory. We will see in six months time
Thanks for the thoughts though.

Dibs, as a 'car man' do you think that Isopon P38 would work for filling and strengthening the kerfs? My available choices are that or fibre glass at the moment.

Regards...Dick.

 

[Dibs-h]

Dibs, as a 'car man' do you think that Isopon P38 would work for filling and strengthening the kerfs? My available choices are that or fibre glass at the moment.

Regards...Dick.

Body filler can be porous and subsequently cause problems later on. I'd go with glass fibre and either polyester\epoxy resin.

HIH

Dibs

 

[Mcluma]

See if you can get thinner ply 2mm or 5mm that is very easy to bend in the radious you have, then do 4 to 5 layers, glued with PU glue, that will work much better then what you are now trying to do

 

[Cegidfa]

Thanks for that Dibs; having done some research; as fibreglass is waterproof, I will go with that.

Hello Chris, are you a mind reader in your spare time :shock: as I decided at lunchtime to not kerf some 15mm ply, but use three or four layers of bendy 5mm ply.
I think I would have gone mad kerfing that much

Regards...Dick.

 

[billybuntus]

Any good stockists for timber frame round windows? Looking to replace ours next year maybe.

 

[Dibs-h]

Any good stockists for timber frame round windows? Looking to replace ours next year maybe.

kembang-semangkok-t54913.html?hilit=%20window

HIH

Dibs

 

[Cegidfa]

Hi folks,

Can I just say, that a body can easily have too much fun cutting Celotex to fit a Gambrel roof. That's both lower bouts fitted; just the upper two to go :evil: :wink:

And now I have the flexy ply....hurrah. Cut the first 8 x4 into strips this afternoon and fitted the first layer. Typically, one length is not enough to go round, so a 300mm insert has to be cut for every layer. Any normal person would have made it fit. But no one has ever accused me of being normal...thank goodness.
It has just occurred to me that the glue up could be problematic, as I will have two pieces to coat every time...time will tell.

Regards...Dick.

 

[kirkpoore1]

Dick, are you actually building the windows, or just the hole the windows will go in?

Kirk

 

[Cegidfa]

Hello Kirk,

Good question - I'm not even sure that I know the answer to that one :lol:
The method of construction has gone through several iterations. Currently, I was going to just make a tube and build up two stops (inner and outer) and use them to fix the IGU, as they are referred to over here. But on third/forth thought :roll: , we felt that without a proper, separate frame, it might look a bit 'mean'. So I am back to making a 'proper' circular frame, which I am sure will look much better. What do you think?

That will involve making a large wooden octogon, and then routing it...oh joy. At least I have abandoned making them opening; as I really don't think it will be needed.
The up side to that is, that the building will be more airtight. It will be quite a challenge for me though, as I have not used a router in that way before.
I just need to remember to lock down all the separate parts of the build up, so that I don't end up with a router doing 90mph and suddenly, it's not fixed to anything

Regards...Dick.

 

[kirkpoore1]

I think circular will look better than octagonal, if that's your question. In your position, I'd get the window and build out from that. You can always cut the hole in the wall as needed. Get help on the install--I bet it will take at least three people.

Kirk

 

[Cegidfa]

Hi Kirk,
Err, I think that you have the wrong end of the stick. :shock: The idea of building an octogon was as the start of routing a circle from it.
Rather like building a wheel from segments of wood It might have to be a dodecagon, or even a hexakaidecagon :shock: :shock: :? I have some 4 x 2 sorry 2 x 4 stock, so whichever polygon will give me the size that is required.....if sketchup says no, I will have to buy bigger stock :? :?
As to requiring three people, as usual it will be down to Diane and me so no change there. I will try to fit the glass after the structure is in place. That will lighten the load. But a double glazed unit that big will be heavy.
What else would we be doing on Christmas Day? :shock:

Regards...Dick.

 

[Deejay]

Morning Dick

'a double glazed unit that big will be heavy.'

Got any of these?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keyw ... snlgi2wo_e

Surprisingly cheap.

Cheers

Dave

 

[Cegidfa]

Hello Dave,

Thanks for reminding me about the lifters. We were going to get some to help lift some 'loose' floor tiles.
They will make the job much easier and safer...thanks again.

Regards...Dick.

 

[Dibs-h]

Morning Dick

'a double glazed unit that big will be heavy.'

Got any of these?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keyw ... snlgi2wo_e

Surprisingly cheap.

Cheers

Dave

The plastic body ones are 5h!t - DAMHIKT! The metal body ones are superb.

Dibs

 

[Cegidfa]

Thanks for that Dibs. It might save a lot of cursing - and another trip to the glaziers :shock: :?
Not to mention that it would probably be Diane underneath, in a 'supporting' role

Regards...Dick.

 

[Cegidfa]

Hi folks,
Just a small update to show the progress.
We have managed to glue up the first ring without too much panic. We used Feb PVA and applied it with rollers to both parts. It wasn't quite the panic that I thought it might be. We did do a dress rehersal, and on removing the clamps later, it seemed to settle the ply into its shape, so we will do that in future. Typically, each eight foot length is too short, so a small insert has to be cut for each layer. I was getting such a good fit that the buggers wouldn't come out; don't panic Mr Mannering..... phew....
See below one finished ring and another started.

We made the first ring sitting on some planks of PAR 6 x 1, sitting on the three green stands, but the layers didn't sit fully down, in spite of us tapping each layer down, prior to clamping. So I planed the edge down before removal from the mould. For the next build I found a piece of 18mm ply that was just large enough to sit the mould on. I also clamped the two together at four points so that the mould couldn't move. This time, instead of random bits of wood that nearly fit (under the clamps) I used up some offcuts of 2 x 1 cut to the exact height of the ring. This made the assembly more speedy. As you can see from the photo, it takes a lot of clamps to hold the blighter down. The bendy ply was, for me, a bit too flappy; it bulged out at the slightest chance. We found ourselves using more clamps as the layers built up. There were a few small gaps, but we will spot glue and clamp them, out of the mould. Once assembled, given its original flappyness, it is quite rigid, and once the window frame is fixed in, it will be fine.

So, may we wish all of our readers a cool Yule, happy Winterval, winter solstice or Meán Geimhridh, or just plain....

Err, that's ancient Icelandic...You didn't expect anything normal from me did you :shock:

See you all in the New Year, so Prosit Neujahr to you all :ho2 :ho2 :ho2

Regards...Dick.

 

[Cegidfa]

Hi folks,

Ok, make an octagon - should be an easy job - it isn’t, when the timber is 4 x 2 and 850 is the side width.
I cut slightly over length on the chopsaw at 22.5°/67.5° and did a fine trim cut on the table saw, having used the angle finder to set the sliding table. We had previously drawn a circle on some 18mm ply and divided it into eight, and drawn the outline of the octagon. The side length was measured off this. Having trimmed the first side until it was the correct length, we fitted a stop to the sliding table to enable repeat length accuracy.

That was the theory; in practice the ends didn’t meet, and some of the cuts although measuring correctly for length and angle, didn’t sit solid together. We then clamped one side down to the lines and added pieces slowly to see where the problem was. After three lengths the angle was opening out. They were checked again with the a/finder, and were spot on, so we have no idea what is causing the trouble. The t/s angle was adjusted to bring the side back to the line without changing the length. This took several times round the octagon before it was back to the line, and then the cuts were a little rocky so the faces were planed in the middle until they nestled together reasonably. We were shaving off .2 of a degree at a time, and on something this big it makes a noticeable difference. We still have no idea what is going wrong, so we will be destined to repeat this process for the other window. Has anyone any idea what is going wrong, because the angles measure seemingly correct?

The next job was to mark the wood for the domino err biscuits. This went well and all the parts fitted together.

To facilitate holding all the parts together, five sides had guides screwed to the ply, on the lines. then a sixth one was fitted on the angle, to allow a wedge to be tapped in to hold it all together. The dry run went well with no gaps showing, so we went for the glue up. There are a lot of parts to apply glue to, so we worked steadily, assembling the last three sides and then fitting them as one to the rest. This stopped us having opening angle issues. The glue inevitably changes how things go together, so we had a bit of a wrestle to close up all the gaps. Having driven in the wedge, some gaps were still apparent, so I used a long guide/clamp to pull one section in, retightened the wedge, and then clamped the opposite side, and again, tightened the wedge. This incremental approach squeezed more glue out until the sides were mated. At this point we beat a hasty retreat :smile:
See the finished job below.

Now repeat the whole process again....oh joy.

Regards...Dick.

 

[kirkpoore1]

Dick:

I think you're finding that the average miter saw simply isn't precise enough. 0.2 degrees is a small angle, but since you have 16 of them (eight pieces with two ends each) it adds up pretty fast. A disk sander with a miter gauge would help you tweak it. Better still, however, would be a hand plane and an adjustable angle shooting board. I'm certain there are thread on this in the handtools section of the forum.

Of course, there's always the other alternative: caulk to fit and paint to match.

Kirk
who recently found that a 0.85 degree taper is way too much for even a two inch long tenon...

 

[bosshogg]

I wonder if you have considered how you will replace the glazing unit should anything go wrong with it (them) I assume by the pics of your build and described action, that you intend to have the octagonal shape routed into a ring to fit the bendy ply frame, but two questions spring to mind 1/ how do you intend to insert the glazing unit 2/ how will you be able to replace one?
Hopefully you have thought this through and my interceding is unnecessary...bosshogg

I never teach my pupils. I only attempt to provide the conditions in which they can learn.
Albert Einstein 8)

 

[Cegidfa]

Hello Kirk,

I guess that the precision applies to the digital angle finder as well, as it read exactly 67.5° when held on the cut angle, grrrr. Still, my adjustable angle shooting board is me, holding the wood and free planing with a baby plane....it worked...... twice now. Just awaiting glue up tomorrow.
The Domino is a great piece of kit, but cutting 64 slots, times 2, sure gets tejus (just been listening to Doc Watson :smile: )
Caulk to fit - spoken like a true artisan :wink:

Hello Boss,
Yes, the next action will be routing a circle from the octagon; deep joy at 2” deep.

The window ‘frame’ will be permanently fitted to the ring, and the IGU will have a bead of silicone as a seal, and then a removable ring inside. Thanks for asking the question though. With my memory, I’m bound to forget something at some point :smile:
I can’t believe that I’ve got this far without missing something major.

Regards...Dick.