New Woodworking vice with a difference

[Steve Maskery]

Come on RR, spill the beans! Those of us who are not time-served engineers need a bit of help with understanding here!


S

 

[Benchwayze]

I think there is a keyway along the plain bar. This allows it to be guided by a key, on the inside of the cog. (It could be a long key in the bar and a keyway inside the cog I guess)

When you slide the jaw up to the workpiece, it can go no further, so turning the vice handle and the bar would then make the cog turn, which tightens the vice. The cog/pinion transmits the movement to the other handle, along the rack.

That's how I see it, but I am not a trained engineer and I could have missed something. I think it would work, and yes pinions from automobile gear boxes would probably suit. Some good steel bar, and the means to cut a keyway. (Milling?) You wouldn't need a Q/R clutch, (As you do with a normal Q/R vice.)

Does that sound about right folks? :wink:

John

 

[JohnBrown]

You might have to find a very old car gearbox! I think most gears these days are helical.

 

[9fingers]

I think there is a keyway along the plain bar. This allows it to be guided by a key, on the inside of the cog. (It could be a long key in the bar and a keyway inside the cog I guess)

When you slide the jaw up to the workpiece, it can go no further, so turning the vice handle and the bar would then make the cog turn, which tightens the vice. The cog/pinion transmits the movement to the other handle, along the rack.

That's how I see it, but I am not a trained engineer and I could have missed something. I think it would work, and yes pinions from automobile gear boxes would probably suit. Some good steel bar, and the means to cut a keyway. (Milling?) You wouldn't need a Q/R clutch, (As you do with a normal Q/R vice.)

Does that sound about right folks? :wink:



John

You could be correct John but I wonder why the plate and spring mechanism behind the gear hence my search for the patent number - so far without success. I have emailed the inventor but no reply yet.

Bob

 

[Benchwayze]

You might have to find a very old car gearbox! I think most gears these days are helical.

You haven't seen my car John!
Nor my Bitsa box!
:lol:

John

 

[JohnBrown]

I think there is a keyway along the plain bar. This allows it to be guided by a key, on the inside of the cog. (It could be a long key in the bar and a keyway inside the cog I guess)

When you slide the jaw up to the workpiece, it can go no further, so turning the vice handle and the bar would then make the cog turn, which tightens the vice. The cog/pinion transmits the movement to the other handle, along the rack.

That's how I see it, but I am not a trained engineer and I could have missed something. I think it would work, and yes pinions from automobile gear boxes would probably suit. Some good steel bar, and the means to cut a keyway. (Milling?) You wouldn't need a Q/R clutch, (As you do with a normal Q/R vice.)

Does that sound about right folks? :wink:



John

You could be correct John but I wonder why the plate and spring mechanism behind the gear hence my search for the patent number - so far without success. I have emailed the inventor but no reply yet.
Bob

The plate and the spring are what locks onto the bar, as with a Irwin style speed clamp/cramp. The transfer rack is non parallel, and forces the locking plate to tilt, and thus lock onto the bar. If there is a keyway, then I believe I understand it completely. If there isn't a keyway then I am stumped.

 

[Steve Maskery]

That sounds good to me, John.
I can't see a keyway, but that doesn't mean there isn't one. The racks are wedge-shaped, joined by a separate steel bar so that the vice jaw can be any width. The spring releases the plate when the handle is undone and the plate is kept from jamming on the pinion by the plate at the top and by an adjustable set screw at the bottom.

Absolutely brilliant. Now if only I had a foundry, a milling machine and no scruples.....


S
PS how do you you make a tooth on the inside of a gear wheel to fit in the supposed groove?

PPS RR's gone a bit quiet.

 

[xy mosian]

PS how do you you make a tooth on the inside of a gear wheel to fit in the supposed groove?

keyway on the inside of the gear and a key perhaps?

xy

 

[RussianRouter]

Its a two part construction...

1.the double handle lock/unlock is rack and pinion.

2 this is the classic...the locking method is the rachet gear and pin.

I'm summising he designed this whilst observing how a socket rachet worked.

 

[JohnBrown]

PS how do you you make a tooth on the inside of a gear wheel to fit in the supposed groove?

Maybe something like a Woodruff key, but with the semi-circular part in the gear wheel?

The thing that bothers me about a keyway is that, depending on haw far along the bars it extended, the sharp edge could damage the held work.

Incidentally, this sort of vise would be useless for compressing springs, for example(or whatever you woodwork types get up to that's similar) owing to the limited travel of the jaw while locked.

 

[JohnBrown]

RR wrote:

2 this is the classic...the locking method is the rachet gear and pin.

Sorry, you've lost me there, could you elaborate, please?

 

[RussianRouter]

Sorry, you've lost me there, could you elaborate, please?

Smash an old rachet up and you will see.

The guy has worked for an Automotive parts dealer then another job in the auto trade,so therro he's aquired idea this from the rachet socket mechanism.

When the wheel rotates one way, the pawl slides over the teeth; when the wheel rotates the other way, the pawl catches in the teeth.

 

[Steve Maskery]

You've lost me, RR. There is no indication of a ratchet mechanism as far as I can see. On the contrary, the rack moves just as easily each way, when locking and unlocking. If there were a ratchet mechanism, then he would have to flip the position of the pawl, wouldn't he? And where in that picture is there any sign of one? I don't see it myself.
Besides which, if there is this groove we are all so keen on, a ratchet mechanism would also be quite unnecessary.
Occam's Razor and all that.

S

 

[RussianRouter]

Steve,believe me its a rachet mechanism,the spring and washer are the tensioners the rachet is similair to that of a clocks escapement rachet.

 

[Steve Maskery]

So where are the teeth?
S

 

[RussianRouter]

So where are the teeth?
S

For heavens sake you don't need teeth,study and it'll soon ring your bell.

Tensioner,gear,thrust....not necessarily in that order.

 

[RussianRouter]

Takes hat off to the man,simple but ingeniuous...I don't have a bench though :wink:

 

[Benchwayze]

Steve,

I could see a 'woodruff' style key working. But maybe it would need a casting from which the pinion has to be machined. The only sure thing is that to operate the other screw, it's a rack and pinion!

At the moment, I am scratching my head for a solution; hampered by the fact I am not really an engineer. Taking stuff apart and reassembling is not quite the same thing as proper engineering... :lol:

Sometimes it needs a bit of imagination...

:wink:

John

 

[jimi43]

I think there are some Cornish Piskeys hiding under the bench holding on....(TM's post about Avo Elves put me on to this theory!)



Jim

 

[Steve Maskery]

Hi John
The way I see it is this.

When not under tension the bar just slides in and out in the nylon bushing, unimpeded by anything, because there is a clearance hole in the disk.

When the handle is tightened, the gear moves clockwise, driven by the key/slot arrangement (the one we've not seen but believe must exist) and that gear (pinion) moves the wedge-shaped rack to the right.

As the wedge moves to the right, the disk is tilted, because it is being pushed at one point only; so it no longer clears the rod, but grips it and moves it in a wee bit. That small amount of movement is the grip of the vice.

Sorted!

But even if we could buy all the bits, would it really be much cheaper, or indeed even as good, as paying the bloke who already seems to know what he is doing?

Still, it's nice to have the understanding, isn't it?
S