New road tax charging rules wont just affect EV OR just new vehicles, its retrospectively changes your tax band

[deema]

They are also going to apply the ‘luxury’ vehicle VED tax to all new cars electric or otherwise over £40K. Thats an additional (at the mo £410 / year for the first five years) There are very few electric cars that won’t qualify for that additional luxury tax. So, electric cars cost a fortune to buy, create far more tyre dust (probably worse for health than diesel emissions), cost more to insure, it’s very difficult to charge them away from home ie lack of charging / costs a fortune, they depreciate like the preverbal falling stone, lithium mining damages the environment and now there is a VED tax disadvantage buying them in 2025. Simply brilliant.

 

[niemeyjt]

Another worry is if they go to pay-per-mile - retrospectively - particularly if they go with some of the flat rate solutions being touted.

As someone who drives thousands of miles across Europe in a British-registered car every year, I do not see why I should pay HMG a brass farthing whilst already paying 10c per km to the French autoroures.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

They are also going to apply the ‘luxury’ vehicle VED tax to all new cars electric or otherwise over £40K. Thats an additional (at the mo £410 / year for the first five years) There are very few electric cars that won’t qualify for that additional luxury tax.

Not true - although I would hesitate to call them "luxury" vehicles, there are EVs from BYD, Citroen, Fiat, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mazda, MG, Nissan, Peugeot, Renault all of whom have EV ranges below £40k. Dacia, MG and Nissan also have ranges below £20k

So, electric cars cost a fortune to buy, create far more tyre dust (probably worse for health than diesel emissions),

Not according to the RAC - reduced brake dust may even balance increased rubber particulates

cost more to insure, it’s very difficult to charge them away from home ie lack of charging / costs a fortune,

Some will never need to charge away from home - many average users will need to charge just once a week. Regular high mileage users may currently be nervous about charger availability - note new points have increased by 41% (19000) in the past year according to Zapmap.

they depreciate like the preverbal falling stone, lithium mining damages the environment and now there is a VED tax disadvantage buying them in 2025. Simply brilliant.

They make excellent S/H buys with prices similar to ICE equivalents. Benefit from much lower fuel costs. Lithium mining issues accepted - but whether worse than oil and gas in environmental harm is debatable. Lithium may be eliminated from next generation batteries anyway!

Both ICE and EV are means of personal transport. ICE has been the source of tax revenues for decades. EV has been largely excluded is to support a strategy to encourage transition to EV. It was never intended, nor should it be, a permanent benefit for EV.

 

[whereistheceilidh]

They are also going to apply the ‘luxury’ vehicle VED tax to all new cars electric or otherwise over £40K. Thats an additional (at the mo £410 / year for the first five years) There are very few electric cars that won’t qualify for that additional luxury tax. So, electric cars cost a fortune to buy, create far more tyre dust (probably worse for health than diesel emissions), cost more to insure, it’s very difficult to charge them away from home ie lack of charging / costs a fortune, they depreciate like the preverbal falling stone, lithium mining damages the environment and now there is a VED tax disadvantage buying them in 2025. Simply brilliant.

Deema, I am always impressed by your knowledge of practical matters but when it comes to some other information then I have no idea where it comes from. We live in the distant Highlands & have put in an EV charger for visitors. I have asked users how far they have come & if they have had problems getting charged....none so far...& that is from the south coast, London ....& the rest..
The cost of a half 'tank' charge...£35 ish....not a fortune. Look at the environmental costs of extracting oil.....Canadian Tar sands, Artic ocean... and the air pollution produced.......
The FT always seems a trustworthy source of news .....especially when compared to the D Mail.

 

[brocher]

Cars, even relatively heavy ones, do hardly any damage to roads when compared to busses and hgv.

Wikipedia
Random other web site

Probably. But the aggregate number of heavier cars must have a toll on our roads. Is the current crop of potholes down to cars or down to 14 years of Tory ideological austerity! Interesting question!

 

[Vulcan]

There are very few electric cars that won’t qualify for that additional luxury tax.

Untrue.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...-sub-40-000-electric-cars-longest-ranges.html

And there are lots more on the way. The cheapest start at around £15K.

 

[deema]

Untrue.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...-sub-40-000-electric-cars-longest-ranges.html

And there are lots more on the way. The cheapest start at around £15K.

The average cost of an EV in the UK is £46K, clearly there are models that fall below this threshold, far fewer than ICE equivalents. Thats before the 10% import duty hits in 2027…..pushed back by an extension in the free trade with EU. Something that only benefited our European car plants and did not encourage manufacture in the UK.

 

[deema]

Deema, I am always impressed by your knowledge of practical matters but when it comes to some other information then I have no idea where it comes from. We live in the distant Highlands & have put in an EV charger for visitors. I have asked users how far they have come & if they have had problems getting charged....none so far...& that is from the south coast, London ....& the rest..
The cost of a half 'tank' charge...£35 ish....not a fortune. Look at the environmental costs of extracting oil.....Canadian Tar sands, Artic ocean... and the air pollution produced.......
The FT always seems a trustworthy source of news .....especially when compared to the D Mail.

You may have missed all the reports of chaos, hiring extra staff to police service station charging areas, charge rage, queue jumping, parking in ev spaces? All reported in the FT usually every bank holiday / peak travel time?

 

[Vulcan]

The average cost of an EV in the UK is £46K, clearly there are models that fall below this threshold, far fewer than ICE equivalents. Thats before the 10% import duty hits in 2027…..pushed back by an extension in the free trade with EU. Something that only benefited our European car plants and did not encourage manufacture in the UK.

You said and I quote “There are very few electric cars that won’t qualify for that additional luxury tax.”

This is simply untrue, there are now more than a “very few”. Just admit it, you made it up.

 

[Vulcan]

You may have missed all the reports of chaos, hiring extra staff to police service station charging areas, charge rage, queue jumping, parking in ev spaces? All reported in the FT usually every bank holiday / peak travel time?

 

[Vulcan]

BEV’s under £40K as of August 2024 based on manufacturers list price.

Abarth 500e

£34,195.00

BYD ATTO 3	£37,695.00
BYD Dolphin	£30,195.00

Citroen Ami	£7,695.00
Citroen e-Berlingo	£27,995.00
Citroen e-C4 X	£32,355.00
Citroen e-Spacetourer	£38,080.00
CUPRA e-Born	£34,125.00
DS 3 Crossback E-Tense	£36,715.00
Fiat 500e	£28,195.00
Fiat 600e	£32,995.00
Ford Electric Explorer	£39,875.00

Honda e:NY1

£39,995.00

Hyundai Kona Electric

£34,995.00

Kia e-Niro

£37,325.00

Kia Soul EV

£32,875.00

Maxus eDeliver 3

£34,000.00

MG ZS EV	£30,495.00
MG4 EV	£26,995.00
MG4 EV XPOWER	£36,495.00
MG5 EV	£30,995.00
MINI Cooper Electric	£30,000.00
MINI Aceman Electric	£31,800.00

Nissan Ariya	£39,645.00
Nissan Leaf	£28,495.00
ORA 03	£31,995.00
Peugeot e-208	£33,250.00
Peugeot e-2008	£39,900.00

Renault Megane e-Tech	£33,995.00
Renault Scenic e-Tech	£37,495.00

Skoda Enyaq 60

£38,970.00

smart #1	£31,950.00
smart #3	£32,950.00

Tesla Model 3

£39,990.00

Toyota Proace Electric	£38,378.33
Toyota Proace City Electric	£30,578.00
Vauxhall Corsa-e	£32,445.00
Vauxhall Mokka-e	£29,495.00
Vauxhall Astra-e	£37,795.00
Vauxhall Vivaro-e Life	£39,190.00
Vauxhall Combo-e Life	£32,180.00

Volkswagen ID.3

£35,700.00

Volvo EX30

£33,044.00

 

[John Brown]

BEV’s under £40K as of August 2024 based on manufacturers list price.

Abarth 500e

£34,195.00

BYD ATTO 3	£37,695.00
BYD Dolphin	£30,195.00

Citroen Ami	£7,695.00
Citroen e-Berlingo	£27,995.00
Citroen e-C4 X	£32,355.00
Citroen e-Spacetourer	£38,080.00
CUPRA e-Born	£34,125.00
DS 3 Crossback E-Tense	£36,715.00
Fiat 500e	£28,195.00
Fiat 600e	£32,995.00
Ford Electric Explorer	£39,875.00

Honda e:NY1

£39,995.00

Hyundai Kona Electric

£34,995.00

Kia e-Niro

£37,325.00

Kia Soul EV

£32,875.00

Maxus eDeliver 3

£34,000.00

MG ZS EV	£30,495.00
MG4 EV	£26,995.00
MG4 EV XPOWER	£36,495.00
MG5 EV	£30,995.00
MINI Cooper Electric	£30,000.00
MINI Aceman Electric	£31,800.00

Nissan Ariya	£39,645.00
Nissan Leaf	£28,495.00
ORA 03	£31,995.00
Peugeot e-208	£33,250.00
Peugeot e-2008	£39,900.00

Renault Megane e-Tech	£33,995.00
Renault Scenic e-Tech	£37,495.00

Skoda Enyaq 60

£38,970.00

smart #1	£31,950.00
smart #3	£32,950.00

Tesla Model 3

£39,990.00

Toyota Proace Electric	£38,378.33
Toyota Proace City Electric	£30,578.00
Vauxhall Corsa-e	£32,445.00
Vauxhall Mokka-e	£29,495.00
Vauxhall Astra-e	£37,795.00
Vauxhall Vivaro-e Life	£39,190.00
Vauxhall Combo-e Life	£32,180.00

Volkswagen ID.3

£35,700.00

Volvo EX30

£33,044.00

Yes, but apart from those, very few...

 

[deema]

Fake news or a very bad memory. That has never been the modus operandi with VED.

The last time VED was changed was in 2017, the policy of only applying the new rules to new vehicles was perpetuated. I’ve extracted and highlighted the relevant part from the governments web site. This is the first time VED rules will be applied retrospectively to the best of my knowledge. I’ve checked a few

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vehicle-excise-duty/vehicle-excise-duty

General description of the measure​

This measure reforms Vehicle Excise Duty (VED) for cars first registered from 1 April 2017 onwards. First Year Rates (FYRs) of VED will vary according to the carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions of the vehicle. A flat Standard Rate (SR) of £140 will apply in all subsequent years, except for zero-emission cars for which the SR will be £0. Cars with a list price above £40,000 will attract a supplement of £310 on their SR for the first 5 years in which a SR is paid. All cars first registered before 1 April 2017 will remain in the current VED system, which will not change. The new rates and bands for the post-2017 VED system are set out in the table below:

 

[deema]

@Vulcan, your right, I am wrong, I was considering the total number of car models available, not just EVs. There are over 400 models of car sold in the UK. Sorry, my bad.

PS, we are actually actively seeking to buy an EV at the moment!

 

[Lons]

Several of those cars on that list wouldn't come in under the £40k threshold as it's based on manufacturers list price INCLUDING any optional extras. Few cars are sold without a package or some options (according to a salesman friend) so metallic paint, perhaps a set of mats, a space saver spare or any other options available to choose will take the list price over. Doesn't matter if you get a discount either it's list that counts.

I guess it's no different to ICE in that it's part of the calculation when you make your choice and the extra £1550 (currently) over 5 years is just part of that. I made that choice when buying my current car. I can't afford it's EV equivalent so will be hnging on to it for some time and a number of friends have come to similar conclusions.

I've sat in some of those on the list and driven a couple none of which appealed to me one bit. The MG my daughter had on loan for example was just plastic tat, though it drove ok.

 

[Terrytpot]

And also we should note that a lot of these EVs are much heavier and bulkier and cause road damage! So I am OK with the standardisation of the Vehicle licence!

Hmmm, well I parted company with my BMW X3 30D M sport just over a year ago which had a not very economical or environmentally friendly 3.0Lt engine and had a kerbside weight of 1965kg.
If it hadn’t been so ridiculously expensive I might have been tempted by its ev replacement, the BMW IX3 which is hardly massively heavier at 2185kg but instead opted for the more frugal Skoda Enyaq iv60 with its kerbside weight of 1992kg.
Do you seriously think that extra 27kg is “much heavier” and liable to cause more road damage than the BMW did?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

For road wear surely the size of the tyres must have a bearing? What if one is 20% heavier but has 50% more tyre/ground contact?

 

[Sachakins]

The change to VED to all vehicles from 2025 is not a change in banding costs, ie it's changing zero to £190, that I would be bad enough,but hard to digest.

The new charge has required a change in existing law. Both for EV and low emission vehicles, so not just a price rise. Hence why I think it's abysmal.....

But please note, this was not a Labour policy, but a Conservative one from 2022.

This excert is for the actual LAW change from gov.uk.
Note that the exemption was definitive not time constrained.

Current law​

Paragraph 20G of Schedule 2 to the Vehicle Excise & Registration Act (VERA) 1994 exempts electric vehicles from the requirement to pay Vehicle Excise Duty.

Proposed revisions​

Schedule 2 of VERA 1994 will be amended so that the electrically propelled vehicle exemption no longer applies to cars, vans and motorcycles. The exemption for cars with low CO2 emissions will also be omitted. Schedule 1 will be amended so that electric cars, vans and motorcycles are liable to pay the same rates as petrol and diesel vehicles. Schedule 1 will also be amended so that new electric cars will be eligible to pay the higher rate of duty, commonly known as the expensive car supplement.

The Graduated Vehicle Excise Duty (Prescribed Types of Fuel) Regulations 2001 will also be revoked so that hybrid and alternative fuel vehicles are no longer eligible for the reduced rate.

Summary of impacts​

Exchequer impact (£m)​

2022 to 2023	2023 to 2024	2024 to 2025	2025 to 2026	2026 to 2027	2027 to 2028
0	0	0	+515	+985	+1595

These figures are set out in table 5.1 of Autumn Statement 2022 and have been certified by the Office for Budget Responsibility.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

For road wear surely the size of the tyres must have a bearing? What if one is 20% heavier but has 50% more tyre/ground contact?

The fourth power law states that the greater the axle load of a vehicle, the stress on the road caused increases in proportion to the fourth power the axle load. This law was discovered in the course of a series of scientific experiments in the United States in the late 1950s.

An ICE with each wheel carrying a load of (say) 400kg on each wheel = 256 (4^4)

An EV with each wheel carrying a load of (say) 500kg on each wheel = 625(5^4)

Seems like a big increase - 244%

By contrast - lorry of 16,000kg with (say) 8 wheels (2000kg per wheel) = 160,000 (20^4)

Lorries and busses are road killers - the difference in the stress caused by slightly heavier cars is trivial. HGVs have multiple axles as regulations limit maximum axle loads.

 

[MikeJhn]

I note all the above, but can't understand why the majority of potholes are on roads inaccessible to lorry's