New Machine (garage) Room Setup advice require please

[custard]

It costs a lot of money to make a woodworking machine that's up to professional standards of accuracy and reliability.

Unfortunately it costs a lot less to make a "woodworking machine shaped object".

Think very, very hard about what you really need to make your furniture accurately and efficiently, then hunt it down in the second hand market. It'll be a lot of graft, and you won't have the instant buzz of spending two-and-a-half grand in one phone call; but you'll end up with something worthwhile that you can sell in the future for what you paid for it today.

 

[LJM]

Hi,

I wasn't so much suggesting you use the college machinery, but pointing out that through your course you've learned methods appropriate to the range of equipment available, but you can very probably achieve a great deal by doing things slightly differently, with fewer machines.

I know a guy who has a long standing, successful furniture workshop in wales, with hardly any machines. I know many others who have fewer machines than you'd like (we'd all like?!), and yet produce excellent work.

I thimk Custard put it succinctly; buy cheap machines and they will not be up to the standards that you are now used to, and you will spend a great deal of time over coming their inadequacies. This is frustrating at best! they'll be depreciating assets, where as a good solid secondhand, even vintage machine will hold it's value and more importantly will make you money more quickly.

I understand time is against you (i had to convert a room with no plumbing to a kitchen between my daughter being born and coming home from hospital, so i do empathise!). But slow down your decisions and so make the right ones for you.

As for swapping a motor, this can vary in complexity from a simple swap out to something more complex, and so the value of doing it can only be judged against the value to you of a particular machine. But as an example, i just bought an old table saw with a dead motor. Took that to a local motor specialist (repairers of any and all motors, turbines etc) who gave me a quote for repair and a price for a new motor. they were able to match the flange size, so it would fit directly where the old one did and selected an output spec and rating appropriate to the application. So the point is, don't be daunted by these little challenges; they seem complex, you learn a little and then things fall into place.

Good luck with this. And i hope the avalanche of information and opinion is not overwhelming; i guess you would have been a happy man had you received a resounding 'yes' to your initial shopping list!

 

[LJM]

Forgot to mention pallet delivery; i just googled it when i was in need of it, so can't recommend a particular firm. Typically, I think, they'd expect to collect a pallet of goods and drop said pallet at it's destination. But all you can do is ask! Some may well offer a more complete service, providing a pallet, loading it etc. I would stat, as you have, by asking the vendor if they can put it on a pallet.

 

[krisdl]

Ok well, this post led to me completely rethinking things. After pointing out to the wife that I don't want to be rebuying in 1-2 years or even own a piece of rubbish that won't cut or plane correctly I came the the decision that it must be one good item at a time. This has led me to the first of the 3 machines and my choice at the moment is the Hammer 4400 Bandsaw, it looks like a really good band saw and I cannot afford to be replacing whatever I buy any time soon.

Does anyone have anything horrible to say about the Hammer 4400? I was looking at startrite 352 or 502 but am I right in deducing that they are now owned record power so the new ones won't be the same build quality right?

Again thank you for all your help because you have all probably saved me from making an awful choice.

Kris

 

[carlb40]

Kris there have been a few threads this year on Hammer on here. They seem to be good tools once you get them. Apparently they are not something you can order off the shelf so to speak. You order, you get given a delivery date ( normally many many weeks wait). Then on that date it doesn't arrive. Have a search on here and read through some threads.

 

[marcros]

i have not used the hammer, or the startrite. Both were on my list though, because I viewed them as kit that i should never ned to upgrade. In the end i got a cracking deal on a large secondhand axi bandsaw so went with that.

Both the above are said to be great bandsaws. With the Hammer, you are buying into a system, much like with festool. extension tables fit various machines for example- useful when you come to buy more kit. There seem to be few used hammer machines about, but I believe that Hammer themselves sometimes have some. Delivery dates may slip, but once you have it, you have it. Double the stated delivery time, and if it is earlier it is a bonus!

 

[Jelly]

With you budget you could buy some really good machines second hand from a dealer.

These reconditioned examples from JMJ should give you an idea: £1200 for a Sedgewick PT 10*7 cast iron P/T and £1600 for a substantial bandsaw.

 

[wallace]

I reckon don't buy new as its generally pants unless you spend serious money. I tried the new stuff a few years ago, rexon bandsaw, axminster morticer, cheap planer thicknesser. Now a couple of years on that stuff is all gone replaced with old stuff, wadkin PK saw £400, 18" planer thicknesser £500 wadkin pillar drill £100 even a wadkin EQ spindle moulder £500, the last thing I got was a wadkin RAS for £160 yes some of these needed tlc but I could never afford comparable new stuff. Of all the machines I have bought they have all worked which is just testament to how well these machines used to be made. I have used a pallet courier called national pallets for loads of machines and get a machine collected from anywhere in Britain for £50. If you can get a coverter to change your 240 supply to 3 phase then that will open up the door to some big boys machines. I sold a very nice 6" wadkin planer for £200 recently. There are cheap good machines out their
Mark

 

[jhwbigley]

Second hand gets my vote.

1k bought these three.



Now 1/3 of the way to replacing them with Wadkin

JH

 

[krisdl]

Wow that some serious machines for 1k John, and thank you for the links Jelly.

My worry with the 2nd hand was perhaps someone might sell me a dud and I wouldn't have anyway to deal with that situation other than to pay out again and thats just not going to happen.

Looking at the type of machines you are all talking about sure gives me a bit of hope though, I am going to have a look around and see what is on offer and come back as ask your opinion if you don't mind.

Thank you for the updates this is a quick post before I have to shower and get out of the house.

Kris

EDIT: John how on earth did you get such a bargain please tell me? I look at the price of machines and I can see posts from 2010 where the price of these machines was a huge amount lower than they are now. What happen that machines jump in price so much, example was a Startrite 401, used to be £1400 new now I see them at about £2000 and of course the used price has followed, what happens to make a £600 increase over 2 years? I feel like I'm missing something or is it just greedy companies?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Not so much greedy companies as deliberate currency devaluation, Kris.

 

[krisdl]

I don't know if posting on this older topic is braking any rules I really hope not as it make sense to update via the post I started.

I took the advice of the majority and went the used machines route, I purchased a Basato 5-2 bandsaw and a sedgwick 10x7 pt (blue colour, not sure if that denotes age) and they are both in pristine condition, I have a little under what I had to spend and left some for electricity for my workshop and garage (luckily after a £1000+ vat quote a friends said he will do it for a lot less, its what he does for a living).

Bad news is my wifes car just died, it is a volvo v50 and it looks like the fuel pump so now the electrics are postponed until a later date so we can afford to fix this car arghh it never stops. I will be looking for a table saw to get me by so if anyone has any recommendations of something that will do the job for a while I would gladly take the advice it has to be cost effective if you know what I mean and it will not be permanent.

Thank you to all that helped me with advice and direction

Kris

 

[MickCheese]

Kris

Updating older posts is a good idea I think. Lots of threads just stop and I am often wondering what happened next!

As for a table saw, my advice would be to stick with the bandsaw until you have the funds to purchase what you want.

Mick

 

[mind_the_goat]

Here's an off the wall idea. A friend of mine brought a top quality plunge saw and rail system as his first power tool. It easily covers the function of both a table saw and a mitre saw. Okay, you can't cut curves but it has the extra advantage of not taking up space when not in use, and you can take it with you to site if you ever need to.

 

[John51]

I love my Festool saw and track. A bit fiddly for doing small crosscuts but there are plans out there for cross cut jigs for it. It is so well designed for dust extraction that a Henry vac is good enough.

btw, what's your budget for timber? No point spending the lot on tools and then having nothing to cut.

 

[goldeneyedmonkey]

+1 for buying 2nd hand. Take your time on doing your research on machines that could fit the bill. You've come up trumps asking on here first. Also do your research on eBay sellers, their feedback is a good indicator of how they do business, so start there, see what kind of things they sell in their recently sold items and the reaction they have got from the buyers. Also when searching for machines click on the "completed listings" button on the left hand side and you can see what similar machines have sold for recently.

I would see what machines other people use to make the same kind of furniture/ pieces that you would like to be producing and follow their lead. I've been impressed with Scheppach, Sedgwick & Startrite machinery. You can't go wrong with a Startrite 352 bandsaw IMHO (as has previously been mentioned).

With regards to transporting machinery either get a man with a van for a day/ weekend and try and pick up a couple of machines in a day, that could save you a bit. But I have used Brooks Transport before and they were no more than £50 each to transport a Sedgwick planer/ thicknesser and a Scheppach TS4010 table saw, which are both pretty heavy and rather awkward sizes/ shapes to transport. Their prices have probably increased a bit in price since 5 years ago. You will have to get the seller to palletise the machinery, but that shouldn't be an issue really, it's not hard to do.

Good luck with it all. Cheers _Dan.