Need help choosing a knew fret saw

[tobytools]

As stated, I'm in the market for a better saw to aid me at Dovetailing.
I like the look of these saws but can't decide what to get as there are a few to choose from.
Who has one of these beauty's and what's your opinion on one for me to get.
I can't afford the new titanium ones so please don't tease me..

I currently have a vintage fret saw and a jewellers saw. The jewellers saw doesn't have enough tension to keep the blade straight and they keep getting hot and breaking
My other one is ok but the blades are crap and cot suited for the work I'm trying to do (too big)



Maybe I should upgrade my blades , what's used by some of you?

Some may be thinking just chop the waste out..

Let me know what your thoughts are. Thank you
Need to make mind up by Thursday as the saw is gona be a present from the misses to me using money from her first pay packet

http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/Kne ... _Saws.html

TT

 

[marcros]

they look good, dont they Toby. I was looking at these a couple of weeks back, and I think that given free choice I would go with http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/Kne ... -inch.html

i found a couple of reviews on youtube that were worth watching, and a review on Derek Cohens website.

From what I saw and read, the 8" is a bit too big, unless you need the clearance. At least with the tilting one you will be able to keep going aalong the board.

 

[bugbear]

As stated, I'm in the market for a better saw to aid me at Dovetailing.

An Eclipse coping saw has always got the job done for me. Stiff enough frame to keep the blade tight, big teeth = fast cutting.

BugBear

 

[Glynne]

Hi Toby,
I was bought the 5" lever saw as a present an it is absolutely brilliant.
I first saw them at last years European show when David Barron was demonstrating but he couldn't take card payments at the show so it went on my Xmas list. They are expensive, but are an amazing piece of kit.
I initially had some problems with the blades breaking and I emailed Matthew at Workshop Heaven for some help. I'm sure he won't mind if I post some of email exchange.

My Query:
-I’m interested in some blades for a 5” Knew Concepts saw and would welcome some advice.
I generally work in hardwood, probably between 14mm - 18mm thick and intend to use the saw for mainly removing waste from between tails.
The first attempt on pear (unsteamed) resulted in the supplied blade breaking and whilst I probably won’t be using such hard wood very much, it would be good to understand what blades you would recommend for differing woods and thicknesses.

Matthews reply: -
My preferred blade for dovetailing is the 9R Skip Reverse (pegas No 90.431) it has a patch of reverse teeth at the end so you end up with an entry side quality cut on both faces.
The supplied No.10 Skip would also be a suitable choice for the material and dimensions you were working with, so the following might be worth considering as possible contributors too:
1) Over tensioning, when switching from a standard jewellers saw to a Knew Concepts people are used to having to crank on every last newton of tension they can get. The Knew concepts is much more rigid so you need to choose an appropriate amount of tension rather than just maxing it out.
2) Coarser blades, working well within their operational capacity, tend to last longer, clog less and cut straighter than finer ones.
3) A Jewellers saw is as close as you can get to 'teeth floating in fresh air', many people moving from coping saws tend to carry on using the same speed and pressure as they would with a dovetail saw / coping saw until they develop a feel for the considerably lighter touch required.
4) The blades are still a consumable, hence they are sold by the dozen and the gross. You should get better blade life with a Knew Concepts than you would with any other saw thanks to the longitudinal stiffness of the frame, but there will still be a rate of consumption.

Hope this helps.

 

[Racers]

Well I had problems with the Eclipse coping saws until I built my own.



But most of the time I chop them out, still those Knew ones do look good and you can get the blades down a Japanese saw cut shoulder.

Pete

 

[Bod]

Tilting one for me. Plus a good selection of blades.
Lucky devil.

Bod

 

[Trafalgar]

The coping saw you use will have virtually no effect on the fit of your dovetail joints unless it is totally uncontrollable resulting in breaching the baseline on a regular basis. I've never seen one that bad.

Olson coping saws and blades work just fine:

http://www.amazon.com/Olson-Coping-Saw/dp/B001F7LVJ6

Otherwise, dovetail joints fit, or not, based on the quality of the saw cuts that start on endgrain - the pin and tail cuts.

Any flat bar coping saw will work fine to remove bulk waste.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Hi TT

For dovetailing, get the 3" KC fretsaw. Since these cut with the blade angled 45 degrees to the frame, you will have sufficient clearance, plus a shorter frame will be stiffer.

Here is the 5" frame. It cuts to a depth of 3 1/2".

And here is the 3" frame. It cuts to a depth of 2". That is more than sufficient for any dovetailed drawer or carcase.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Sheffield Tony]

I have only used the old Eclipse ones. Struggling to understand why such an over-engineered frame is needed. A coping saw normally has the blade fitted so as to cut on the pull stroke, right ?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

+1 Eclipse coping saw, although their blades are garbage. Vallorbe jewellers saw - You can use part blades in it. I'd sooner spend £25 on one of them. Obviously they won't take coping saw blades though.

 

[tobytools]

Wow, thanks for all the suggestions and recommendations,

BB- can I see your eclipse in action please?

Pete- if only I could make all the tools I needed
Beautiful saw by the way
Derek- thank you for taking the time to post pictures and giving me a visual of what I'm after much appreciated.

Marcos- +1

Clynne- appreciate it. Thanks for that I will be purchasing the saw from Mathew when it come to it.

Still not 100% what to get but I know with the advice given I can't go too wrong.

Do I get screw tension, lever tension or lever tension and swivel?

Thanks a bunch.
TT

 

[bugbear]

BB- can I see your eclipse in action please?

This sorta' thing;

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodw ... coping-saw

Eclipse made them for decades, 50p at any car boot sale.

BugBear

 

[AndyT]

I'll just add my vote for an ordinary Eclipse style coping saw. I have one and it's noticeably better than a newer one I bought in the 80s.
If you want to use a finer blade, then I recommend a treadle powered fretsaw as the way to go :wink:

Otherwise just chop!

 

[powertools]

As stated, I'm in the market for a better saw to aid me at Dovetailing.
I like the look of these saws but can't decide what to get as there are a few to choose from.
Who has one of these beauty's and what's your opinion on one for me to get.
I can't afford the new titanium ones so please don't tease me..

I currently have a vintage fret saw and a jewellers saw. The jewellers saw doesn't have enough tension to keep the blade straight and they keep getting hot and breaking
My other one is ok but the blades are rubbish and cot suited for the work I'm trying to do (too big)



Maybe I should upgrade my blades , what's used by some of you?

Some may be thinking just chop the waste out..

Let me know what your thoughts are. Thank you
Need to make mind up by Thursday as the saw is gona be a present from the misses to me using money from her first pay packet

http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/Kne ... _Saws.html

TT

You say you are in the market for a better saw but you don't say what saw you have now and what improvements you expect from a different saw.

 

[tobytools]

BB- can I see your eclipse in action please?

This sorta' thing;

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodw ... coping-saw

Eclipse made them for decades, 50p at any car boot sale.

BugBear

That's not "YOURS" in action! BB

I respect that an old fret saw will work or that some who have an eclipse or other models and can get results ect,
The ones I have are as stated, not branded. One has foreign stamped on it and the jewellers saw also had no makers mark.

Chopping is a way to avoid getting a nice saw
But when your partner want to get you something you have been looking at for a while you'd be mad to say "nah it's ok I'll just chop waste out"

I think I'll call Mathew tomorrow and have a chat with him about my options.

Cheers
TT

 

[tobytools]

As stated, I'm in the market for a better saw to aid me at Dovetailing.
I like the look of these saws but can't decide what to get as there are a few to choose from.
Who has one of these beauty's and what's your opinion on one for me to get.
I can't afford the new titanium ones so please don't tease me..

I currently have a vintage fret saw and a jewellers saw. The jewellers saw doesn't have enough tension to keep the blade straight and they keep getting hot and breaking
My other one is ok but the blades are rubbish and cot suited for the work I'm trying to do (too big)



Maybe I should upgrade my blades , what's used by some of you?

Some may be thinking just chop the waste out..


Let me know what your thoughts are. Thank you
Need to make mind up by Thursday as the saw is gona be a present from the misses to me using money from her first pay packet

http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/Kne ... _Saws.html

TT

You say you are in the market for a better saw but you don't say what saw you have now and what improvements you expect from a different saw.

The improvement I want is a saw that hold a blade In place, cuts beautifully, cuts straight and makes life easier

TT

 

[Cheshirechappie]

If you intend to buy a fine quality coping saw just for removing dovetail waste, you're wasting your money - you don't need a precision saw for that. An Ebay special will do just fine. However, if you intend to have a small bow-saw type saw for intricate shaped work (saw handle making, coping mouldings, that sort of stuff) buy a larger-framed coping saw - but not a deep-framed fret-saw - to enjoy the better clearances it'll give you on such work. (You'll almost certainly find that you'll need the larger capacity of a proper bow-saw or turning saw at some point, but the coping saw can be useful.)

Just as important as the frame is a packet of decent blades. With a light touch, a dozen blades will last for years - I'm still on the first packet I bought 25 years ago, though to be fair I don't use the coping saw much. I prefer the bow-saw whenever I can use one; I find it faster-cutting.

 

[G S Haydon]

Another vote for a coping saw. It's a very simple tool. I support the view that an Eclipse is great. However I bought http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/Swi ... Frame.html from WSH as a bit of a treat for myself, very nice indeed and Matthew has a good range of blades. Finding good blades had been my issue. Most stuff is great for contractor use but the finer pegus blades are great. I have no damage to my tails even when using http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/Zon ... l-Saw.html . I can't remember who gave the heads up on here about Zona but so far I have found it to be an excellent tool for a very good price.

 

[tobytools]

If you intend to buy a fine quality coping saw just for removing dovetail waste, you're wasting your money - you don't need a precision saw for that. An Ebay special will do just fine. However, if you intend to have a small bow-saw type saw for intricate shaped work (saw handle making, coping mouldings, that sort of stuff) buy a larger-framed coping saw - but not a deep-framed fret-saw - to enjoy the better clearances it'll give you on such work. (You'll almost certainly find that you'll need the larger capacity of a proper bow-saw or turning saw at some point, but the coping saw can be useful.)

Just as important as the frame is a packet of decent blades. With a light touch, a dozen blades will last for years - I'm still on the first packet I bought 25 years ago, though to be fair I don't use the coping saw much. I prefer the bow-saw whenever I can use one; I find it faster-cutting.

thanks for you comment, i understand what your saying, but you have start some where, i may at a later date use the saw for other bits and pieces as i continue my woodworking through life but right now this is where im at.
we all have dedicated tools ect..
just been watching this and the first 3mins has me sold.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVYZ0NSE32I

a good saw/tool is never a waste of money im my books.
woodworking is a passion and a hobbie for me and soon to be career. i spend a lot of time tinkering, would i rather a 10p eclipse boot find or a brand spanker thats a pleasure to use,,,

thanks for your thought on the matter gentlemen but my minds set, im ordering one thursday

TT

 

[tobytools]

Another vote for a coping saw. It's a very simple tool. I support the view that an Eclipse is great. However I bought http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/Swi ... Frame.html from WSH as a bit of a treat for myself, very nice indeed and Matthew has a good range of blades. Finding good blades had been my issue. Most stuff is great for contractor use but the finer pegasus blades are great. I have no damage to my tails even when using http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/Zon ... l-Saw.html . I can't remember who gave the heads up on here about Zona but so far I have found it to be an excellent tool for a very good price.

thanks for the heads up mate, its always good to have more that one i guess so this might be my second choice

TT