My rusty LV LAS - UPDATE

[promhandicam]

No the title isn't a spelling mistake. Scouts honour, I do try and look after my tools but I also use them (as I'm not a c****tor). :wink: I even brought back a can of Liberon Lubricating Wax last time I was in Blighty. Unless I've missed the point, and the Liberon is supposed to be applied in the same way as Brut Aftershave in the 'enry Cooper era i.e. I'm supposed to splash it all over me, then I don't know what else to do. My dear old Stanley 4.5 and Record 5.5 don't have the same problem, although I admit they aren't as shiny. Anyway, here is the damage.

The problem seems to be the perspiration from my left hand. To a much lesser extent there is some on the other side of the plane near the tote from my right hand, although my right hand doesn't seem to contact the plane as much. I've tried altering my grip with my left hand but it just isn't comfortable not to have my hand in contact with the side of the plane. I also often have a fan trying to cool me when I'm at the bench but with the combination of temperature and humidity here it doesn't do a lot of good.

The rust does come off with some scotchbrite and elbow grease, although you can still faintly see where it was, but it comes right back again. So, any bright ideas?

Steve

(edited to change link to photo - I'm beginning to get annoyed with photobox :evil: )

 

[engineer one]

i would say complain direct to rob lee, and see what he has to say. :roll:

paul :wink:

 

[Chris Knight]

I think Rob Lee might say that iron does rust..

I suggest you try a harder wax like beeswax or carnauba. Alternatively, remember to wipe it over with alittle oil after each use.

 

[Keith Smith]

Well if you will live in these exotic locations :roll:

I'm just jealous :lol:

You could try using something like Jenolite which is an acid rust neutraliser and then Metalguard but I'm not sure I would want my hand in constant contact with such strong chemicals.

The other option, which is s a better bet IMHO, is to neutralise any rust then use a clear metal lacquer; Rustin's make one.

Keith

 

[Paul Chapman]

Steve,

I seem to remember reading a post by Philly where he said that he has the "rusty hands" problem. I think it's about the level of acidity in sweat, and all people vary. No doubt he will be along to explain or correct me if I'm wrong.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[paulm]

I would remove the rust with garryflex abrasive block and then rub in some car wax to seal the pores in the iron and provide a surface polish, then wipe with camellia oil after every session.

Replenish the car wax from time to time as needed.

Cheers, Paul.

 

[Philly]

Steve
I seem to be very succeptable to "rusty fingerprint syndrome", too. I find the only way to keep it at bay is to remove all traces of rust (I use a garryflex block - fine wet and dry works well, too) and then apply a couple of coats of paste wax. If I'm not going to use the plane for a few days I dont buff the wax off, just leave it as a coating.
When you finish using the plane make sure you wipe it down well and apply another coat of wax or camelia oil.
I still need to remove the wax every few weeks on regularly used planes. Bronze bodied planes and woodies don't have this problem! :lol:
Hope this helps
Philly

 

[Anonymous]

Steve

I have had very poor results from using wax tp prevent rust on steel or iron tools. I really would not recommend it at all.

I now use Camelia oil (japanese and LN use this) and have rust free tools. I apply some every 4-6 weeks or so and have had no more rust on the cast iron saw (rusted 2 days after wax applied :roll: ) or planes.

To remove the rust in the first place, I used fine wet and dry - I too am no collector and don't care a jot that the scratch patterns don't match those it came with - as you said, these are tools to be used.

I get Camelia oil from Axminter

 

[engineer one]

now philly what's all this "sweaty finger syndrome" :lol:

and now you leave the wax on for weeks?? what is it you are not telling us :twisted:

you are all right; iron will rust, particularly in africa i would guess, but more so because of the differences in temperature day and night. maybe you should leave the planes in cloth socks after cleaning up after use, and a light oil will work well, and camelia is one many of us prefer.

it is strange though that the older record and bailey i have don't have discernible rust patterns on the sides, so in part it is to do with the type of metal, as well as the location of the item, not sure rob would have air tested in africa :lol: :lol:

paul :wink:

 

[andycktm]

I knew you were treading on thin ice with the wax Tony :lol: :wink:
Steve i think the plane's are made for show as well as go
thus it will be different c.i.than the stanley's
Use them for 10 min's then polish them for 10 min's sort of thing.
I only have stanley's because i don't class myself good enough
to own l.v or there rival's(you can buy quality but not skill,or cred!).
On saying that they are quality gear so you should get a quality
response if you contact them, if you are reasonable.

 

[Losos]

Steve,
All the above replies encompass the problem 'tho not sure myself about the solution. Who you are, where you are, & what you do make this a tough one to sort.
a) Who you are.......meaning most people have acid in their perspiration
b) Where you are.......very humid, high MC in the air
c) What you do.......you use the tool, & doubtless work hard, i.e. sweat.

You could try writing to LV, but softly softly, IMHO it's hard to see how some surface rust could be avoided unless you always wipe down & spray with something after every use.

 

[promhandicam]

Thank you everyone for your thoughts so far. Looks like I will have to try and procure some Camelia oil and give that a go. Is Garryflex similar to Scotchbrite? I'll also try writing to LV and see what if anything they can suggest. I'd sort of hoped that someone would say - you need an air-conditioned workshop - which I could have then shown to SWMBO :lol: I think however that unless the a/c was kept on all the time it would only exacerbate the problem as it would increase the temp / humidity changes.

I'll keep you posted.

Steve

 

[DaveL]

Steve,

Why didn't you say:

You need an air conditioned workshop, of course the A/C units must be run 24*7.

There was that OK? :roll: :wink:

 

[engineer one]

found a cheap copy of the book 1001 practical uses for vinegar. at a garden centre today.

there are a number of recipes for removing rust from various things, including off nuts bolts and hinges etc. also cast iron pots and pans. leave the item in the vinegar overnight, and then clean properly with water before drying and oiling.

sorry not an a/c workshop, but a cheap way to go.

and no garryflex blocks are not the same as scotch brite.

good luck

paul :wink:

 

[9fingers]

We have a chap at work in our metalworking shop who has 'rusty hands'

Although he does not always remember to use it, a barrier cream applied to the hands does reduce the effect.

However, I'm not sure if the cream would come off when wood working and cause glueing/finishing problems with the wood.

Bob

 

[woodbloke]

Steve - I can sympathize on this one tho' I don't seem to have this problem. I use camellia oil after each session on all steel and iron tools and haven't had any probs so far - Rob

 

[George_N]

I've also heard that Canola oil can be used. It is a low acidity rapeseed oil, originally from Canada and it might be cheaper and more readily available than camelia oil. There is an article in Wikipediaabout it that says it used to be used in steam engines because it was not readily displaced by water or steam...might be useful in tropical climes.

 

[dedee]

Does anyone else use anti rust paper?
I wrap all my planes in it before a put them away and to-date have had no problems. OTOH I have never done a controlled test. I also use camelia oil but do not always remember

I also have a dehumidifier in the work shop

Andy

 

[Scott]

I use camelia oil after every session and wrap the planes in anti-rust paper too

Cheers

 

[promhandicam]

Hi. Just to let you know that as suggested I wrote off to Lee Valley regarding the rust problem I got a comprehensive reply back the following day. In my email I had posted a link to this thread and I was impressed that the guy who replied to me obviously took the time to read it.

Here is an edited version of the reply I got from LV:

Some time back I asked our R&D Department what they would recommend for removing rust from one of the Veritas® planes. They said that for surface rust they use our “Rust Erasers”, preferably the “Fine” or possibly even the medium (with care), but never” the coarse as it will remove too much material and also leaves marks in the metal These erasers can be found on our Web site at the following link: http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.as ... page=10509.

We would suggest using the least aggressive methods possible to start with, and then progress to more aggressive methods if necessary. After cleaning any remaining oil, grime, etc. from the your tools we suggest applying a protective coating to them.

For woodworking tools we would suggest using Waxilit, which is silicone free, for coating your tools. It can be found on our Web site at the following link: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx ... page=32092

You will need to reapply your protective coating from time to time, and definitely at the first sign of rust reappearing. The areas of each tool that come in contact with the material being worked will be the areas that most frequently require reapplication of the protective coating. However, any silicon free wax Protectant will work (Boeshield T-9; DriCote; or TopCoat), as would a silicon free floor wax.

Essentially, it comes back to preventative maintenance. Removing the rust to begin with, then coating with a silicone free coating (silicone can be transferred to your project wood and cause problems with finishing) to help reduce further rusting. The greater the problem, the more intense the preventative maintenance schedule needs to be. A quick touch up coating after each use. Use of a Plane Sack and storing in a wooden box, and possibly adding Silica-Gel dehumidifiers into the mix will all help in reducing rust formation.

There is no sure fire rust preventative and rust never sleeps as there is always air exposed to the tool. All we can do is try to keep it at bay. Simply keeping a waxy rag in a sealed tin or jar, handy to where you store the plane, might prove effective; as long as it is easy to get at to give the plane a quick wipe before putting it away for the day.

I have not attempted to address the acidity of your hands but do believe that it does have a definite bearing on this; either in the acidity helping the rust formation, or in breaking down the protective barriers that you have applied to the plane, thus again allowing the air direct contact with the metal. I have also not suggested wearing gloves, as loosing the “feel” would not be a reasonable trade-off for me.

Here are two of Web sites that I found that basically say the same things as I have said, but with a few additional pieces of information

http://www.theruststore.com/Rust-FAQ-W6C2.aspx

http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/rust/rust.html

As I bought a plane sack with the plane I will try and start to use this regularly rather than when I remember (which isn't often). I will also try and obtain some of the lotions and potions that have been suggested to try and keep the dreaded rust at bay.

Regarding the problem of 'rusty hands', it would appear that naturally skin / sweat is acidic with a pH in the region of 4.5 - 5.5. Being mildly acidic helps the body to fight off infection from airbourne bacteria. Using a barrier cream which has a neutral pH would, I guess, help to make your skin / sweat less acidic. I will have to give it a try and see if it helps.

Thanks again for your suggestions, I hope that some of the above information is helpful to others experiencing similar problems.

Steve