My Multico TM1 Tenoner Scribe Head & Stuff I Need?

[pollys13]

I was lucky to buy a TM1 today at a very reasonable price, stripped, cleaned, tested and in perfect working order.Late owner was a home woodworker with small workshop at end of garden. Looks in very good condition and well looked after.

I'm intending to make some replacement exterior doors and flush fitting replacement windows for my house and if I'm not being overly ambitious, A pair of French type doors to replace kitchen extension ones.

The Multico I bought has the old style bolt on tenon cutters on heads.Looking at the Whitehill site under Multico tenon heads, assume I'm looking at the correct, scribing heads?Whitehill have these Multico tenon heads I've Googled but no cheaper alternative came up? Whitehill list the Multico tenon heads in two sizes, 125 x 65 and 125 x 50. Any advantage for 65 instead of 55? I also see the heads designated LH and RH I assume that is the orientation of the spindle thread? I only need one Multico tenon head and to do a double scribed tenon flip the workpiece over and pass through again? So does a rebate head sit above the tenon head, same size as tenon head. I have a Whitehill limiter head 96 x 55 x 30 assume I fit moulding cutters in this and run the moulds on the spindle moulder and have matching scribe cutters on tenon head.
Clarification appreciated.
Thanks.

 

[Mike Jordan]

The 125 X 50 blocks are both scribing and square cutters using 50mm TCT tips.
It would be sensible to buy a pair of heads and take advantage of the limited projection tooling.
The 50mm tips will also fit the rebate block that you will be running on the same spindle shaft as your limiter head used for moulding. Whitehill sell cutters purpose made for this use.
I can see no advantage in the 65mm heads for normal use.

 

[deema]

The 65mm heads are only useful if you either downsizing from a Sedgwick or the Multico is an introduction machine and you will at some point be looking to move to a Sedgwick, the Sedgwick takes 65mm scribing cutters on the main two blocks.

For a home workshop one block is OK, however, if that’s the route your going down just use your spindle moulder and sell on the tenoner - there is no difference. The useful part of having twin blocks is for offset shoulders on tenons such as for doors and windows where you can with one setup complete the joint.

 

[pollys13]

deema
My spindle moulder ( Axminster WS 1000TA with 1hp power feed ) I can't fit large tenoning heads on it. I'm intending to use through wedged tenons on my doors. Machines guard shroud would limit length of tenon, been down that route before.
Cheers

 

[pollys13]

Mike Jordan
OK I'll order a pair of the Multico 125 x 50 and one or two sets of scribes, whose profile appeals to me, also the limiters for scribes, will also select matching moulds for the limiter head.

" the rebate block that you will be running on the same spindle shaft as your limiter head used for moulding. " Don't quite follow you here, could you clarify please? What would be your procedure for running a mould? You would probably be carrying out other proceddures that I'm not aware of yet and I don't how all comes together, sequence of work.

I will be using my Omas wobble saw as a slot cutter for panels. If its a consideration I have read that a wobble saw creates a rounded base to the slot, is that crucial as regards fitting a raised panel?

On Roy Suttons spindle moulding DVD when his does an overview of tooling, he shows a big wobble saw and the cut it did the base looked perfectly square.

Ihave an idea on how offset tenons are used on windows but not really clued up on it.How it all comes together but I'll find that out when I get there and ask on the forum for more guidance.

The Axminster spindle is only 100mm the limiter head is 96 x 55 x 30. So what size, type rebate head should I get? There are for and against opinions regarding shear cutting rebate heads. Also best configuration, knives two or more, spurs top and bottom?
Ta very much.

 

[Mike Jordan]

The very slight curve to the bottom of the grooves will not affect the fit of the raised panels.
It's normal practise to mount two blocks on the spindle to cut the rebate and mould in one pass, this ensures that no inaccuracy can creep in while making separate cuts for each. I use a two knife shear cut rebate block with scribes.
If your spindle can't mount the 105mm required you will need to make two passes.
If you look at the Whitehill catalogue it shows cutters sized to give the rebate size you want.

 

[pollys13]

OK thanks I think I'm with you, will mull it over, ponder a bit. Will reread previous posts I made about window making to refresh my memory. I think one can cut angled tenons on the Multico? If so how does one go about that,make up some type of jig, or clamp workpiece at angle to the table?

 

[pollys13]

It's normal practise to mount two blocks on the spindle to cut the rebate and mould in one pass, this ensures that no inaccuracy can creep in while making separate cuts for each.

I'm trying to picture how you do this. If the mould is cut with the limiter head, which is stacked on top of the rebate head. If you want to increase the depth of the rebate then don't you also cut the mould in deeper as well? Doesn't the diameter of the rebate head needs to be greater than the limiter head?
What about a head with a recessed nut to fit the moulds in, could bolt, screw head into spindle rather than hold down with the nut, if that were to work then could stack on top of rebate block?

 

[pollys13]

I see there is the The Whitehill Universal Moulding Block 100 x 40 x 30.

" This truly universal 100mm diameter spindle moulder block will accept most of the standard cutters from Whitehill, Trend, KWO, Bruck, Kity, CMT etc., together with the comprehensive range of 55mm wide cutters shown in this section as well as custom made cutter knives for special profiles.

A further advantage is that the reversible washer allows for mounting on the machine with a conventional nut or, where the arbor has a tapped hole, flush mounting with the use of a countersunk head screw." My spindle moulder has a tapped arbor.
As the above moulding block is 40mm high I could stack on top a suitably sized rebate block.
I still don't understand how the mould and rebate are cut in one pass? As I explained earlier. Ta.

 

[merlin]

This is how I do angled tenons on mine, one for each hand. If you just clamped it down it would move about.

I had the same choice of blocks a while back and I opted for a 65mm on the top as I had to cut some bigger cill shoulders for some window jambs.

Merlin

 

[pollys13]

OK but I don't understand how you actually use that jig? So I could have 65 heads in but fit 55 knives in them though have the option to change to 65 if needed extra?
Cheers.

 

[pollys13]

Mike Jordan.

Ah, lower the stack down to cut the mould then raise stack up to cut the rebate?

( I've not actually used the spindle moulder yet but had basic training with Peter Sefton, Spindle Moulder handbook, 1st and 2nd editions, Wood Machining A Complete Guide To Effective and Safe Working Practices, Machine Woodworking, Nick Rudkin, Huddersfield Technical College.)

The Whitehill Universal Moulding Block 100 x 40 x 30 - £84 stacked with a Trend rebating cutter 100 x 50 x 30 - £90 , the shear cutting version I think is only available as 125 x 50 x 30 at £129. and I think only the Whitehill limiter recess combi head 125 x 30 from Sargents could go on top of this and is a whopping £283.
Shear cutting, straight cutting debate aside, would the The Whitehill Universal Moulding Block 100 x 40 x 30 stacked with a Trend rebating cutter 100 x 50 x 30 work together to cut the correct moulds and rebate, for house door and simple window construction?

 

[Mike Jordan]

The advantage of the use of two blocks together is that the depth of rebate is set by the mould cutter size. Your existing Whitehill 96 mm block will pair with a 125mm rebate block but two 100 mm blocks won't do the job. Obviously you can't run 55mm cutters in a 65mm tenon block since they won't project over the top of the block. I'm not familiar with the spindle moulder you are using, is it possible to mount a 105mm set up and still fit the retaining nut?

 

[Mike Jordan]

. Obviously I have not set this up to work but to demo the method. The cutters in the bottom block were made by Whitehill and are reversible to give 9mm or 12mm rebates for doors. In the foreground are just the cutters to cut a full height mould. I have sets of these for 9, 12, and 20 degree moulds. The 20 degree set is shown. I do of course use a spelch board and a retaining nut as part of my digit retention programme.

 

[Mike Jordan]

 

[Mike Jordan]

I hope these are self explanatory.

 

[ColeyS1]

Have you considered a cnc machine ? I'm led to believe it would perform all the tasks- moulding, tenoning and scribing to length. Once you load the timber it should perform all the tasks in the correct order (providing you've got an interchangeable head one ) Maybe something to consider ?

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[pollys13]

Mike Jordan.
Is t possible to mount a 105mm set up and still fit the retaining nut? I've emailed Axminster.
My spindle moulder has a tilting arbor from +5 ° to - 45°. I have a Trend rebate head 125 X 60 X 30. Coley was kindly explaining to me how to use this to machine a 9 degree cill section, avoiding the expense of getting a dedicated cill block.
I won't order the tenoner heads until I more clearly grasp which sctibes and moulds I need to go with them.
Cheers.

 

[pollys13]

Sounds pretty esoteric to me Coley and I suspect a hefty price tag. Will persevere on the route I'm on.
Using the spindle, Multico ect, strikes me as being proper wood machining.
Cheers

 

[ColeyS1]

With the upmost respect you're researching for a solution that involves no handwork. Keep collecting your tools/machines and thinking the way forward!!!!!!!

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