My LN 5 1/2 has rusted :(

[Jez]

You may remember me making a thread a while back about small patches of rust on my chisels and got great advice and bought a Garyflex fine abrasive block, Camelia Oil and a new chisel roll and since then i've had no problems at all

I finished collage a couple of months ago and haven't been able to use my tools at all there just sitting in my tool box and every so often i check on them to make sure theres no signs of rust etc..
My house is quite damp at the moment, theres alot of building work been done and its quite open to the elements.
When i bought my 5 1/2 i made sure to buy one of the plane socks to keep it when i'm not using it since it is "Impregnated with rust inhibitors" and i always wipe some Camelia Oil on it when i've finished using it to stop rusting. Well i hadn't checked on it for a month or so and when i checked it today i got abit of a shock :shock:
When i took it out the plane sock i found quite heavy red rust on both sides of the plane and some underneath.
I used the Garyflex block on it for a few minutes and it knocked back the rust quite abit you can still see its there but its not to bad..

here is what its looking like at the moment
http://mi7.snappyupload.net/DSC00252.JPG
http://mi7.snappyupload.net/DSC00253.JPG

the garyflex seems to be able do so much, but maybe a more course block might be the answer, the block i used on it was the brown 'fine' one.

has anyone tried this :
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp? ... e=1&jump=0

Sorry for such a long post, any tips or suggestions would be great

Cheers,
Jez

 

[Philly]

Jez
Why don't you try some fine wet and dry sandpaper with some WD40. Try 600 grit - should remove the rust without removing too much metal.
Hope this helps
Philly

 

[tnimble]

I'm with Philly on this. Rust removers work by a chemical reaction, what will happen, how will you control the reaction, can you stop the reaction when it does not do what it should, after a successful rust removal what will the effect be in the long run, will the reaction continue very slowly etc.

Take a piece of glass and some of the wet and dry grit 600 (or maybe start with 400). Break the back of the paper and place it on the glass. Use the surface tension of some liquid (i use mineral turpentine, but W40 will do about the same) and also wet the top of the sand paper with that liquid. Sand the rust off the plane. Some do this with figure 8s I do linear passes.

You should be able to remove all the rust and have indeed reflatten the plane if any at all would have been necessary. When only doing the last tiny spots freehand your plane remains perfect flat or even is slightly flatter afterwars.

 

[Alf]

Ouch, Jez. There's a surprise we can all do without. Coupla' things; first one being that I'd do as Phil suggests. Use it wet with some white spirits or meths for a better finish and go to a coarser grit and then work up again if necessary. The trouble with rust removing stuff in any chemical form is it'll tend to effect the unrusty areas too and can turn everything a rather dull grey. Dunno if the Liberon does this but it seems overkill for the problem.

Then think about prevention again. I have some doubts about the long term efectiveness of camelia oil. Okay if you're doing a quick wipe every day but I've had very mixed results over any length of time. To be honest I've yet to find anything to beat a nice coat of wax, buffed out. Seems to prevent to evil orange lurgy but doesn't have to be removed before using the tool. I'd hazard a guess that the plane sock was counter-productive in your case because it held the moisture close to the plane; in conjunction with some moisture prevention they work okay. If your tools are in an enclosed space then consider something along the lines of those silica gel bags (same stuff is sold to combat condensation on windows), or some people swear by having a light bulb permanently lit in their tool storage to keep it warm. I cover all the bases with a dehumidifier in the workshop and those anti-rust vapour things and paper in my tool chest and cupboards as well as wax on the tools and plane socks on some of the planes; spend too much of my time removing other people's rust on tools as it is! :lol:

Cheers, Alf

 

[tnimble]

I agree with Alf for the prevention of rust. Currently I'm trying Boeshield T-9 (which is available on this side of the pond since a few months now) I currently prefer it above wax but still of cause lack the long time results with it.

 

[Anonymous]

I find wax doesn't work as well as Camelia oil

 

[Evergreen]

Jez

I'm another wax user. In particular, I use Renaissance Wax, a micro-crystalline wax blended to a formula used by the British Museum. It can be used on all manner of materials e.g. wood, marble, bone, enamel, not just metals. Just a small dab goes a long way and it dries completely. I got mine in Lakeland, believe it or not, but they don't always stock it.

Regards.

 

[ByronBlack]

I find camelia oil to be a real disappointment. I bought some recently, and had smeared my new set of AI chisels, a couple of weeks had passed and there so much rust on the chisels that I could no longer see the Ashley Iles black branding!!

Also, is there such a thing as 'rusty fingers' because almost without fail everytime I go to my veritas block it has rust exactly where my fingers were so much so it shows the finger prints! If I leave it too long, I have to resort to taking wire wool to it.

Yet my older tools don't show any signs of rust even if I leave them out in the open - is 'new' steel that much more susceptible to rust?

 

[tnimble]

I find camelia oil to be a real disappointment. I bought some recently, and had smeared my new set of AI chisels, a couple of weeks had passed and there so much rust on the chisels that I could no longer see the Ashley Iles black branding!!

:shock: My condolences

Also, is there such a thing as 'rusty fingers' because almost without fail everytime I go to my veritas block it has rust exactly where my fingers were so much so it shows the finger prints! If I leave it too long, I have to resort to taking wire wool to it.

We are very dirty beasts, covered with greasy acids, smelly and every where we go we leave all kinds of residue behind like dead skin, hair and that greasy acid.

Metal and acid don't go together very well. Especially copper and iron.

Yet my older tools don't show any signs of rust even if I leave them out in the open - is 'new' steel that much more susceptible to rust?

Different quality of steel, probably because the older tools contain more of other metals, like tin, zinc and carbon.

 

[Martin Cash]

The best rust preventative that I have found is lanolin spray.
It leaves a coating of waxy lanolin on the surface which can be wiped off before use.
In Australia this is marketed in various aerosol cans.
WD-40 is useful for freeing stuck threads etc, but as a rust preventative its effectiveness very poor to useless.
Lanolin if left on the surface for long periods, does get a lttle harder and will attract dirt. This is its only downside. It definitely stops rust from forming.
Regards
MC

 

[wdartsch]

As for Lanolin,I remember the following from an other topic a while back.

Watch out if using Lanolin based products, they can seriously affect bonding of adhesives and finishes if your wood gets contaminated.
It can become volatile and airborne if atmospheric conditions are conducive and settle on adjacent surfaces.
Remember sheep wear it to keep out water.
Can`t recall the author though

Wolfgang

 

[Mirboo]

To be honest I've yet to find anything to beat a nice coat of wax, buffed out.

I agree with Alf on this. My current protectant of choice is the Renaissance Wax that Evergreen mentioned above.

My garage workshop is only about 200 metres from the ocean so salt fallout from the air is a problem. Also, Sydney can get relatively humid in summer, not as humid as parts of Australia that lie further north, but humid none-the-less. The salt and humidity combine to quickly rust tools that I don't take adequate steps to protect.

I've tried WD40, synthetic motor oil (Mobil 1), lanolin spray and Renaissance Wax.

The WD40 didn't seem to leave much of a protective film and was largely ineffective. The motor oil worked OK but was messy. Lanolin spray also worked but then CHJ warned me in another thread about it's possible effect on glue and finishes. It was also a bit messy, leaving a thick sticky residue on the tool that in most cases needed to be removed prior to using the tool. Finally I moved to wax. It isn't messy, you don't have to wipe it off before using the tool and it works quite well.

I'd hazard a guess that the plane sock was counter-productive in your case because it held the moisture close to the plane; in conjunction with some moisture prevention they work okay.

I have found that plane socks do hold moisture close to the plane. At least I think that's what my observations show. Luckily I discovered this before the rust had progressed too far. What I observed was tiny rust spots forming a pattern that matched the weave of the plane socks. I've since stopped using them.

In order to prevent salt fallout landing on my planes and contributing to the rust problem I currently keep them in closed boxes, in most cases the boxes they came in. One day I will make a proper tool chest or cabinet to store them, but until then the boxes suffice. When I've finished using a particular plane I wax it and then slip it back in the box. So far so good.

 

[Handrubbed]

I had the same shocking experience as the OP in this thread, with rust forming inside my plane socks. After some careful detective work, I discovered that weather conditions had formed a temporary leak in the roof over by plane storage case, and dripping water had dampened the socks. This is ironic, because the same incident might not have caused damage to the planes without the protective socks. All in all, I believe the socks are valuable protection as this is the only incident of any rusting occurring. I too plan to purchase the wax mentioned by Alf, available here in the States through Woodcraft.

Much careful sanding on granite plates removed the rust. I seriously considered returning the planes to L-N for resurfacing, but did not. The abrasive rubber blocks are excellent for giving a nice original look to the machined surfaces. They are a must in my shop.

 

[Alf]

Ooo, had another thought. They're not in a metal toolbox are they? That's another potential problem, 'cos of condensation an' all. Wood is Good, which is handy given our predilection for the stuff round here

BB, I believe the tendency to have The Rusty Fingers of Death is well-known amongst machinists - iirc Phil is a sufferer, which I theorise has sub-consciously drawn him to wooden planes and thus given us an excellent planemaker in our midst. So it may turn out to be a silver lining at some point...?

Cheers, Alf

 

[Woody Alan]

Also, is there such a thing as 'rusty fingers' because almost without fail everytime I go to my veritas block it has rust exactly where my fingers were so much so it shows the finger prints! If I leave it too long, I have to resort to taking wire wool to it.

I am afraid it's genetic ,some do some don't. I find my tools at work have a dull finish wheras my mates have a nice polish, he has non acidic skin. Although he swears mine are dull through lack of use :shock: :roll: So if you are "blessed" that way you're stuck I guess.

Alan

 

[ByronBlack]

Alf, Woody et al - thanks for the info regarding 'rusty finger' I thought I must be doing something wrong, but seems it's just my DNA, it's funny, because I have been doing a lot of research into wooden planes, and to be honest I don't think I would be too upset in getting rid of all my irons in preference to woodies (veritas block excluded - i'll have to try wax on it).

 

[Philly]

Al- yes you're right. The "Fingers 'O Rust". As you say, no problem with the woodies..... :lol:
Philly

 

[Mirboo]

Unfortunately I too suffer from the "rusty fingers of death" so you can add that to the salt air and the humidity that I referred to above. Wax seems to do the trick though. I mentioned in my previous post that I am currently using Renaissance Wax. Well, I've also used U-beaut Traditional Wax and it works fine, it just doesn't buff off as easily as the Renaissance Wax.

 

[Jez]

Thanks for all the great help

Ooo, had another thought. They're not in a metal toolbox are they? That's another potential problem, 'cos of condensation an' all. Wood is Good, which is handy given our predilection for the stuff round here

They are actually in a metal tool box... :shock:

Could you link me to the wax im after on axminster, theres so many types!

Thanks again,
Jez

 

[Smudger]

You could also put silica gel dessicant bags into the wooden boxes. These are available quite cheaply on eBay.