My contribution to obscure tool reproduction

[D_W]

https://postimg.org/image/n0c84uhrf/ (disappointing that the image host has decided to rotate this image to vertical, and will not let me return it to horizontal)

I saw a picture of a two-ended miter plane a couple of years ago and set it aside because it's not very practical. Now that I really don't have the need to make more practical planes, I can make some oddballs.

This is one - in process, of course. It will lay on its side and have a turned handle in the middle close to the top edge of the plane, and then I will need to make a pair of boards for it - one with two miters on, and one standard.

There will be an added challenge, though, and that is figuring out where to use it because it will be 28 inches long finished length, and the picture of the one I took the idea from has a board that appears to sit on the ground.

I am on the fence at this point on whether or not I want to waste a huge amount of not-so-cheap beech to make the chute board out of matching wood when there is a woodworking supply store right up the road, one that has truly good quality BB ply. The latter seems more sensible of two boards are in order.

I am a bit on the fence about the wedges - the example shows traditional wedges, but I'm thinking something that could be struck loose (on the wedge rather than striking the plane) might be a more sensible wedge design. Striking one end of the plane to relieve one iron will just advance the other deeper. Not to say that you can't use it with one iron in at a time, or tap the side of a wedge a bit to work it loose.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Hi David

I see that you have made a start on the new mitre plane (or should that be planes as it is a double). What is the angle of the beds? It looks about 45 degrees. Or did you make it lower?

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[D_W]

Hi Derek - it's 45. I didn't go lower because we really don't shoot anything that difficult here, and years ago, I used an LN 9 with an effective angle of 50 degrees and liked it quite a lot. The angle of the original plane photo doesn't really allow an accurate guess at the bedding, but I'd suspect it's below 45 degrees a skosh.

With some luck, after doing some office work this morning, I'll be able to finish the wedges, nip the ends, and put the bevels on it.

And maybe turn the handle. (though we're crossing our discussion from the WC forum) I thought about putting a more practical handle on it, something more like the atari logo but with a convex curve, but settled back on doing the handle like the original because it would allow the atari style handle later if it doesn't work out.

It'll be a struggle to use the plane, it's more of a novelty. I already have a LV custom plane that I can use to shoot and have more plans for miter planes in the future - perhaps an infill and a wooden style.

 

[D_W]

https://s2.postimg.org/eyvlugevt/IMG_20 ... 124360.jpg

So far. Maybe complete the wedges and finish fitting them next weekend.

The brown spot is....wait for it.

Motor oil. I had a disaster in the shop a couple of months ago (happens to be my garage, also). I haven't quite yet found all of the places that drops of oil went. I found one with the side of the plane today when I laid it down.

 

[Noel]

Looking well so far. Oil is a real problem on wood (as you know), solvent and an absorbent cloth/wipe and repeat a few times might help.

PS- just post the images here rather than a 3rd party host, makes things easier for all.

 

[D_W]

Will do. For some reason, I had it in my head that this site didn't host images. Glad that is not the case.

re: the oil, ditto the problem part. It goes deep into wood really quickly. When I had my disaster, I had a kitchen cabinet sitting further away than the pan of used oil that shifted and the side of the cabinet absorbed it so quickly that I had to scrape the surface of the ply off the side. Fortunately, it's a cabinet that will have that end hidden, but I can imagine the stink it would've made if it were left as is. The other thing I noticed about it is when you plane or scrape exposed wood and you think you've gotten all of it out, the next day you go back and the same piece of wood has magically had oil reappear.

I planed most of it off on the plane above before this picture, just leaving a little. I'll be oiling the plane with BLO heavily, anyway. I'm hoping it disappears in the dirt of normal use over time as I don't want to plane much more off. I'd have been better off if it hadn't contacted the quartered face. I'll give your solvent suggestion a shot before I give up on it, though.

 

[Eric The Viking]

I'm afraid my bench (WBP surface) cannot be dedicated to woodwork, and on occasions I've managed to drop dirty engine oil onto it.

I found that dry cleaning spray can work amazingly well - the aerosol sort that starts off wet and dries to a white powder. You then vacuum it off, using a clothes brush or an upholstery attachment on the vacuum to lift it from the grain. two or so applications has, in the past, removed all traces.

The other trick is to use several, successively lighter solvents. So for engine oil, dampen with paraffin or turps, and blot with clean white kitchen paper, then do the dry cleaning spray thing. You do risk removing the natural oils from the wood, so it much depends on the finish you want - for my bench top it doesn't matter much!

The dirty components of engine oil are carbon smuts and tiny bits of metal worn off the moving parts. these don't penetrate the surface, although obviously they do get into the grain. It's one reason why dry cleaning spray works well, I think, the dirt is encouraged to move to the (drying) spray's particles, where it sticks and can be vacuumed up.

The plane is fascinating, and obviously you've made it beautifully. I am struggling to understand why the original wasn't a mirrored pair though. Do you know why it was done that way? It's fascinating!

E.

 

[Noel]

I found that dry cleaning spray can work amazingly well - the aerosol sort that starts off wet and dries to a white powder. You then vacuum it off, using a clothes brush or an upholstery attachment on the vacuum to lift it from the grain. two or so applications has, in the past, removed all traces.

Interesting, something to keep in mind Eric.

 

[AndyT]

The plane is fascinating, and obviously you've made it beautifully. I am struggling to understand why the original wasn't a mirrored pair though. Do you know why it was done that way? It's fascinating!

E.

I think it is a mirrored pair, unless you are thinking of something even more fiendish?

 

[Eric The Viking]

Well, I was thinking of a separated pair of planes really, rather than essentially two joined together. On the basis that you'd pick up the one suited to the mitre surface you were cutting.

D_W is purposefully copying an existing design (and doing it beautifully, too), but I'm struggling how the original would help the trimming/shooting process along. Obviously there's more mass, which is good, but the mass is behind the edge, whereas in front of it would probably be more advantageous (more like Japanese-style pulling than pushing - might reduce chatter). It also will stick out a fair way from the shooting board at the start of the stroke.

And you still, probably have to set the unused blade back a bit, so there's no danger of it catching fibres, and that would be 'entertaining', if you do it the traditional way, by tapping either the iron or the toe, as you'd be 'adjusting' both ends simultaneously.

There must have been some specific advantage, or problem that this approach overcomes - I just can't see what it is at the moment.

E. (in dumb+thick mode, evidently)

 

[AndyT]

Not thick at all! They sound like good logical points, which can only be settled by making one and trying it out.

I think I have seen pictures of something like this but can't remember where. I think you've established why it didn't catch on... :wink:

 

[D_W]

Well, I was thinking of a separated pair of planes really, rather than essentially two joined together. On the basis that you'd pick up the one suited to the mitre surface you were cutting.

D_W is purposefully copying an existing design (and doing it beautifully, too), but I'm struggling how the original would help the trimming/shooting process along. Obviously there's more mass, which is good, but the mass is behind the edge, whereas in front of it would probably be more advantageous (more like Japanese-style pulling than pushing - might reduce chatter). It also will stick out a fair way from the shooting board at the start of the stroke.

And you still, probably have to set the unused blade back a bit, so there's no danger of it catching fibres, and that would be 'entertaining', if you do it the traditional way, by tapping either the iron or the toe, as you'd be 'adjusting' both ends simultaneously.

There must have been some specific advantage, or problem that this approach overcomes - I just can't see what it is at the moment.

E. (in dumb+thick mode, evidently)

All of those are legitimate reasons, I think, why I've only ever seen one picture like it. I wonder if the original was in a frame shop or something - i think the design only makes sense in something where miters are to be cut both ways, and even then, I think the board is more valuable than the plane (because another simpler plane could be used in the board)

Mass is nice for shooting, but this plane will probably be 9 pounds or so, which is excessive. I am building it entirely for novelty expecting that it won't be that great to use.

The only real changes I'm making to the original are that my bed angle is probably a couple of degrees higher, I'm changing the wedge to a scroll so that it can be tapped out (a hard blow to the back of the plane will loosen one iron and advance the other, as you pointed out). And, I'm spacing it so that there is a little bit more room between the irons.

I don't think the unused iron will be much of a concern due to the size of the plane (the length), it should be completely out of the cut unless the plane is taken to the bench to shoot edges (which might be a good use of it, too). If the unused iron becomes a hassle, I'll just use it with only one iron in the plane.

I think a more practical plane for end grain would've been a pair of skewed iron planes that would go each way on the board. I still may make those later. I've got a desire to build planes and no great reason to build anything useful at this point.

Thanks for the nice comments, by the way, and thanks for the tips on the oil. I'm going to save this string, as I'm sure this isn't the last drop of oil that I'll catch unexpectedly.

 

[ED65]

The plane looks super but it's a right oddball all right.

The brown spot is....wait for it.

Motor oil.

That's an awful bit of luck. I was also going to suggest the solvent soaking method but oil can sometimes sink in far further than common sense would indicate is even possible!

Anyway, for what little help it might be a mixture of acetone and MS is more effective than MS alone, and leaving a dampened wad of tissue or cotton wool in place for a while will work better than dampening and blotting. You may get a tide mark (extractives from the beech) but they're far easier to deal with than the oil stain.

 

[DoctorWibble]

The photo makes it easier to understand. As you say probably intended to cut two mitres at the same time : one on the forward stroke the other on the backwards stroke. So a specialised production tool of sorts
If it were used for picture frames of a set size you could glue up two opposing corners then use the plane to get the angle and length needed to bring the two halves together. Without being over fussy about length. Perhaps then they'd have several boards each matched to a set size of picture frame.

 

[AndyT]

If you skew the blades, make the whole thing out of cast iron, and add a big handle to swing the cutting part back and forth, you'll have a mitre trimmer which was in a lot of old catalogues, under various names, for quite a long time. "Rogers' Patent" was one of them, IIRC.

 

[D_W]

I've seen those planes and like them, but am not a threat to make a casting. Maybe an infill type. Dead square infills are a challenge for me since I'm not using power tools generally to build infills. If the pinned infill ends up out of square by much, then I guess the only recourse I will have is to make a matching chute board that is out of square by the complement.

(I would like to have a rogers miter plane, though - but finding it on ebay isn't going to be the way - the only one I see sold ended at $1,600).

 

[D_W]

Well, it shoots.

I turned a handle last night and just put it in dry. Now I realize the handle doesn't have to be that tall because your hand goes over the side of the plane. I'll let it go for now.

A test on a regular shooting board shows that it's much different than a metal plane. It weighs 9 pounds 6 ounces with one iron and wedge, and 10 pounds 10 ounces with two, but it feels light because of how slick the wood is on a shooting board (it works fine with my old MDF shooting board), despite the length.

That's a double edge sword (the slickness), because it means that the plane will slide in all directions easily (meaning you can push it away from the shooting board easily). I see now why there is a piece of retaining wood on the outside of the skid of the plane that I copied - it's necessary to keep the plane against the board. It's incredible how light it feels, though, and I haven't oiled and waxed it yet - it's bare wood.

I tried a norris panel plane on the same board, and because of that issue, the norris is a lot easier to use. I expect that will change once I build a proper board for it - one that has a strip on the outside of the plane to keep it from moving away from the board.

 

[WoodMangler]

Going off at a slight tangent, but a related subject. Someone bought me a 'Veritas Wooden Plane Hardware Kit' as a present at Christmas, and I'd been wondering what to do with it. The finished example shown on the associated instructions is all elegant curves, but I now think that I could make a shooting-board plane with it. Having never seen a shooting-board plane other than the one D_W is making, I don't have much idea of what I'm proposing. I think I have two main questions - How long should it be, and what wood would be best ? Any suggestions gratefully received.

 

[D_W]

I have not used one of those kits, but I see that they are more or less a blade, an adjuster and a lever cap screw. At 1 5/8" wide, I'd choose a wood with decent density, and as is always the case with wood for planes, something that doesn't chip. Make the plane reasonably long enough that you could drill the ends and insert lead shot or brass drill rod or something to add weight.

Just my opinion.

The plane I made above is a little bigger than it looks in pictures (maybe looks big in pictures) and has 2 9/16" irons. I think a more compact plane with weight around the blade is probably better for shooting in a board that has no fixture to keep the plane from wandering. At this point, a common old norris panel plane (later with beech) that I just got my fingers on works better, and so would a bench plane. Once this one is retained, that should flip flop back.

 

[D_W]

It works, and it works surprisingly well: I don't know what I was thinking last night, I should've shot a few ends first (that's all most people really want to see) and then done the voluminous blabbing on afterward.

Go to 8:00 or so to see the thing in use. With a track, it works a treat. given that it's 3 3/8" tall (and laying on its side), it is the first shoot plane that I've used that no matter what you do with it and how hard you horse it, it will not tip toward the fence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSusq2i ... znpz5oae04