Moving a wood burner.

[Tweedy]

Hi all,

I'm having a major re-jig of my workshop and I'm finding myself stymied in my attempts to organise.

The location of my wood burning stove seems to be in the way of any organisational structure. I can come up with.

It is at the far end of my workshop from the door and does not heat my 10 by 3 m space very effectively as a result.

I would like to move it to my left hand wall But the chimney would be coming out very close to my boundary with my neighbours. Is there any legislation I need to be aware or is it just have a friendly chat with them?

In Wales if it makes a difference.

 

[eribaMotters]

Everything you need to know should be found in "Document J", as attached. I'm sure you will enjoy reading it.

Colin

 

[Inspector]

I don't know about your regulations, but I have a hot tip for you. Don't pick up the wood stove if it still has burning wood in it.
Any chance you can put a small fan above the stove to blow the warm air towards the other end of the shop?

Pete

 

[Tweedy]

Everything you need to know should be found in "Document J", as attached. I'm sure you will enjoy reading it.

Colin

Such thorough regulations make me proud to be British. That'll take some tea and many biscuits. Many thanks!

I don't know about your regulations, but I have a hot tip for you. Don't pick up the wood stove if it still has burning wood in it.
Any chance you can put a small fan above the stove to blow the warm air towards the other end of the shop?

Pete

Ahh, someone needs to watch The Great Escape again! I've tried the fan, added insulation etc but it's not enough really. When I build the new stove I am planning on putting in either an air dispersal system or low-pressure steam to spread the heat. Plus the new stove will be rocket mass type so should be more efficient.

 

[Sachakins]

Wood burner in 10m x 3m well insulated walls, draughts seals on openings, roof and floor insulated?
That should be quite toastie, don't see where or why it not performing.
What floor type do you have and what is your insulation?

 

[Valeboy]

Hi all,

I'm having a major re-jig of my workshop and I'm finding myself stymied in my attempts to organise.

The location of my wood burning stove seems to be in the way of any organisational structure. I can come up with.

It is at the far end of my workshop from the door and does not heat my 10 by 3 m space very effectively as a result.

I would like to move it to my left hand wall But the chimney would be coming out very close to my boundary with my neighbours. Is there any legislation I need to be aware or is it just have a friendly chat with them?

In Wales if it makes a difference.

Until recent years HETAS insisted the flue had to be a minimum 4.5mts, this is no longer enforced, the approach is to now follow the manufactuors recomendation, ie, Stovax insist on 4.5mt. However, these HETAS details, which Building Control have to follow only apply to domestic properties, not sheds and greenhouses etc. My view, (ex HETAS sales training),would be to follow the domestic regs, then if you fall into dispute with your neighbour you can point out that you have complied. The 4.5 is from the exit hieght of the stove flue. Again, if it's a hobby workshop then you don't need touse insulated flue, although it would be obvious to use it until you pass through a roof for fire reasons. If you are a official/commercial workshopyou may be bound to differant regs so I would suggest contacting HETAS for a chat or a registered installer, they are usually keen to help.

 

[Bob Chapman]

My old workshop was 10m x 4m and had a small wood burner. Doing some maintenance up near the roof apex I was struck by how warm it was up there.
I arranged a length of 4 inch drainpipe vertically with an old computer fan above it, blowing the warm air down again. The pipe was only about a metre long but it made an enormous difference.

 

[curryjunkie]

My old workshop was 10m x 4m and had a small wood burner. Doing some maintenance up near the roof apex I was struck by how warm it was up there.
I arranged a length of 4 inch drainpipe vertically with an old computer fan above it, blowing the warm air down again. The pipe was only about a metre long but it made an enormous difference.

was just about to suggest this, i watched a video where a guy did exactly that with the outlet near his desk from the apex of the ceiling, he recorded a 10 degree difference in temp before and after, and the 12v fan is very cheap to run.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I have twice insulated 6" ducting with a 48w in line fan running through the roof space from the ceiling over the stove to the kitchen and the bedroom. I installed it about three years ago, it was about £150. It works.

 

[XTiffy]

I would concern myself more with either improving the existing workshop heater's efficiency (what do you burn?) and/or the level of insulation.
Why risk upsetting a neighbour when there are other avenues? The various heat redistribution measures already suggested would be well worth considering.

Came across a lovely German word today Montageanleitungen (Assembly Instructions).
Almost as good as the Welsh Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogo and no I can't pronounce that either!

 

[Tweedy]

Thanks all for your input.

I decided on balance that keeping the existing chimney location was optimal, but moving the stove location to a more central one would allow better heat distribution and allow me to manage the fire from my normal work area better.

Please excuse the building site state of the workshop!

I built my new heater and ran a piece of flexible flue liner (reclaimed when I found the bricks for the build by happy accident) from it to the existing chimney exit. I have extended the height of the chimney to increase draw.

The flue is not tidy looking, but I'll improve that with time. By the time it reaches the chimney proper it is cool enough to touch, just.

I added a mirror for now to keep an eye on the burn without bending over. I haven't finished the burner, I need to build a door/airflow control and air intake from outside.

I know it's a bit odd looking. It's based on a rocket mass heater design. It should, once finished, significantly reduce my fuel use. Today the workshop was fairly warm, the fan could circulate warm air rather more efficiently than before.

I also noticed that once the system had dried out and warmed up the smoke leaving the chimney basically disappeared. I am hoping this is due to the system burning much more efficiently. Oh, the CO/particulate monitor showed no change.

 

[Cabinetman]

Just a thought and I don’t know much about it, but with a long horizontal run like that do you run the risk of condensation build up in the flue?
I’ve heard good things about rocket stoves, I suppose heating a mass will take a little time, so not so warm at the beginning but it should pay off over time as you say.
Ian

 

[Terry - Somerset]

I would own up to having little knowledge of wood burners, but a horizontal flue (even if later fixed more securely) looks to me like a disaster waiting to happen.

A quick google shows horizontal is not recommended - and whilst I could accept that for pragmatic reasons in ones own workshop a few feet may be acceptable, what looks like ~15ft IMHO is not.

 

[Jester129]

Agreed, the fire needs moving so that the chimney is vertical.

 

[Sachakins]

Surely back pressure from that amount of horizontal flue is going to lead to fume problems?
Is it actually a safe option?

 

[Tweedy]

Just a thought and I don’t know much about it, but with a long horizontal run like that do you run the risk of condensation build up in the flue?
I’ve heard good things about rocket stoves, I suppose heating a mass will take a little time, so not so warm at the beginning but it should pay off over time as you say.
Ian

Condensation is a possible issue, though once it all warms up enough I think there will be enough hot, dry air to clear it. When it's set up properly, if there's any sign of moisture build up, I'll put in a drain valve.

I would own up to having little knowledge of wood burners, but a horizontal flue (even if later fixed more securely) looks to me like a disaster waiting to happen.

A quick google shows horizontal is not recommended - and whilst I could accept that for pragmatic reasons in ones own workshop a few feet may be acceptable, what looks like ~15ft IMHO is not.

Rocket stove designs burn a little differently to the typical wood burner, the temperature of the exhaust gasses are much higher than a normal stove. They are also much cleaner burning, so fewer particulates to build up.

RMH systems have much, much longer exhaust systems than this typically with more twists, turns and heat sinks to boot.

 

[Tweedy]

Surely back pressure from that amount of horizontal flue is going to lead to fume problems?
Is it actually a safe option?

It didn't yesterday, the exterior chimney produces a good bit of draw, such that even when starting the fire it pulled smoke through before the system was dry, let alone warm. I have a CO monitor naturally.

 

[trvlr]

Stove flues can be offset - i.e. at an angle once they've cleared the stove itself. Most stoves allow either top or rear exit . A very short horizontal one in the case of a rear exit before it has to go generally upwards - with no drooping etc.; otherwise danger of condensation and worse - increased (serious) soot etc. build up on the horizontal (and any drooping) section?

Although "hot air" rises naturally better to ensure it does no impediments as may develop with lengthy horizontal etc. runs... Even alight rise on those sections is better than strictly level?

All stove manufacturers usually offer an assortment of offset connectors to allow a gentle rise and/or fitting so as to allow a generally vertical o/p of flue emissions.

 

[Tweedy]

Stove flues can be offset - i.e. at an angle once they've cleared the stove itself. Most stoves allow either top or rear exit . A very short horizontal one in the case of a rear exit before it has to go generally upwards - with no drooping etc.; otherwise danger of condensation and worse - increased (serious) soot etc. build up on the horizontal (and any drooping) section?

Although "hot air" rises naturally better to ensure it does no impediments as may develop with lengthy horizontal etc. runs... Even alight rise on those sections is better than strictly level?

All stove manufacturers usually offer an assortment of offset connectors to allow a gentle rise and/or fitting so as to allow a generally vertical o/p of flue emissions.

I've seen shaker burners with very long, slightly inclined flues. Definitely an improvement I want to make as soon as possible.

 

[Bingy man]

Thanks all for your input.

I decided on balance that keeping the existing chimney location was optimal, but moving the stove location to a more central one would allow better heat distribution and allow me to manage the fire from my normal work area better.

Please excuse the building site state of the workshop!
View attachment 175879
I built my new heater and ran a piece of flexible flue liner (reclaimed when I found the bricks for the build by happy accident) from it to the existing chimney exit. I have extended the height of the chimney to increase draw.
View attachment 175880
The flue is not tidy looking, but I'll improve that with time. By the time it reaches the chimney proper it is cool enough to touch, just.
View attachment 175881
I added a mirror for now to keep an eye on the burn without bending over. I haven't finished the burner, I need to build a door/airflow control and air intake from outside.

I know it's a bit odd looking. It's based on a rocket mass heater design. It should, once finished, significantly reduce my fuel use. Today the workshop was fairly warm, the fan could circulate warm air rather more efficiently than before.

I also noticed that once the system had dried out and warmed up the smoke leaving the chimney basically disappeared. I am hoping this is due to the system burning much more efficiently. Oh, the CO/particulate monitor showed no change.

As an ex gas engineer I can confirm this is dangerous. The flue should be as straight as possible with 45deg bends and no 90 deg . Also single wall flue liner used in a dusty environment with lots of wood and other substances that are just waiting to burn your shop Down . If you move the stove then move the flue outlet. I’m no solid fuel expert but gas fires with flues less than 3 mtrs are always at risk of failing to clear the flue products . Another option is to consider a diesel heater ( all in one unit ) and leave the stove where it is . Seriously though I’ve disconnected gas fires and boilers with flues installed like what you’re planning. And of course no wood burning stove or any solid fuel appliance should be used without the appropriate ventilation and a c o alarm .