More sharpening woes

[Bigbud78]

So if I was to get the Sorby do I need the Proset & Long Grind Jig ? Yandles have the lot for £340 or I could just go for the delux set from poolewood for £320.

 

[sploo]

So if I was to get the Sorby do I need the Proset & Long Grind Jig ? Yandles have the lot for £340 or I could just go for the delux set from poolewood for £320.

I ordered the complete set from Yandles. The Proset and long grind jig look nice, and I think are probably worth the extra cash.

Whether you need them is up to whether you're going to do some long grinds of gouges. As a totally new turner I've no idea myself, but for the tiny difference in cost I thought it was worth getting them.

They also ship a Trizact belt with that kit. Unfortunately, the extra bits Yandles add are obviously not in the Sorby Deluxe box, and were just placed inside the shipping box. No problem for the Proset and long grind jig, but the Trizact belt didn't take kindly to being slam-dunked by the ProEdge box in transit and probably isn't usable as a result.

 

[Bigbud78]

So if I was to get the Sorby do I need the Proset & Long Grind Jig ? Yandles have the lot for £340 or I could just go for the delux set from poolewood for £320.

I ordered the complete set from Yandles. The Proset and long grind jig look nice, and I think are probably worth the extra cash.

Whether you need them is up to whether you're going to do some long grinds of gouges. As a totally new turner I've no idea myself, but for the tiny difference in cost I thought it was worth getting them.

They also ship a Trizact belt with that kit. Unfortunately, the extra bits Yandles add are obviously not in the Sorby Deluxe box, and were just placed inside the shipping box. No problem for the Proset and long grind jig, but the Trizact belt didn't take kindly to being slam-dunked by the ProEdge box in transit and probably isn't usable as a result.

Have you contacted them about the belt, surely they will sort it for you ?

 

[sploo]

Have you contacted them about the belt, surely they will sort it for you ?

Yep; sent an email on Saturday, but no answer.

EDIT: Rather timely, I got an email this evening saying they'd ship out a replacement belt

 

[Bigbud78]

Ordered the Sorby and it has arrived, looking forward to sharp tools

 

[sploo]

Ordered the Sorby and it has arrived, looking forward to sharp tools

I've only used it once (on a roughing gouge and a parting tool) but the results were fine. Given I've no prior experience with wood turning chisels or the ProEdge I guess that's good.

 

[BearTricks]

Here's my modest sharpening station. The Record Power grinder was, if memory serves, a penny under £60.00 on a Yandles sale day and the two jigs together were about £50.00 off ebay (they are on there regularly). I improved the tilting platform with a Bristol locking handle, again off ebay. I splashed out on a CBN wheel from Axminster (£105.00) after using one at my teacher's place but the two white wheels I had on there did a perfectly adequate job.

I do my bowl and spindle gouges on the CBN wheel and my scrapers on the white one. Skews I tend to sharpen by hand with a diamond hone; that way I don't disturb the scraper angle on the platform. I was a guitar builder/repairer before I retired so I'm used to sharpening flat chisels by hand.

So, I'm into that lot for a little over two hundred quid, half of which was for the not totally essential but absolutely fabulous CBN wheel. The important thing as far as I'm concerned is that the rig is right at my elbow when I'm turning and putting a quick edge on a tool is very easy and quick. There's nothing worse than fannying about with ancillary gear when all you want to do is turn.

I'm umming and ahhing about getting a pro edge, but I might end up doing something like this instead considering it's a fraction of the cost. How's the vibration on the record power grinder? I have a cheap screwfix and it's unbearable.

 

[CHJ]

..

How's the vibration on the record power grinder? I have a cheap screwfix and it's unbearable.

Have you trued up the wheels?

1. are they clamped concentric on the shaft with decent machined flanges or just cheap pressed steel with runout.
2. have wheels been trued up on sides as well as front.
3. is one a wide wheel with central recess, is recess running concentric with spindle.

Case 1. can be improved with taper card washers (old beer mats) or fitting replacement machined clamping flanges.
Case 2.&3. can be achieved by diamond dressing the wheels.

The motor may be out of balance but this is rarity in my experience.

 

[selectortone]

How's the vibration on the record power grinder? I have a cheap screwfix and it's unbearable.

It's very smooth. It's screwed to a bench I built with a top of 3/4" ply. There is no vibration at all. I'm 100% happy with it. As stated above, the wheels need to be true.

 

[Bigbud78]

Sorby user's can I question RE: spindle and bowl gouge angles ? Whats everyone using ?

Ive put a standard onto my spindle gouges all at 35deg's but was going to buy a 3/8th to put a finger nail grind on for finial work but found that using the proset the over hang is massive for 35 degs! Anyone noticed this ?

Also going for a fingernail grind on my bowl gouges whats recommended angle ? 50 ?

 

[CHJ]

I personally don't use the proset method of setting the gouge protrusion in the jig.

I set the bulk of my regular users at 50mm protrusion in a setting block, (much easier and consistent to set) and use the differing hole positions in the 3 hole pivot block to adjust the nose angle.

The closest to the pivot for my normal bowl gouges and the outer hole for my steep nose angle for addressing the bottom 1/3rd. of bowls.

I've got to go back up to the shed to buff a bowl, I'll take some pictures and angle measurements.

Edit:- But this would not give you a 35 deg. of course, I have an additional jig set on the grindstone for that I'll have to sort it out and check.

 

[woodpig]

Sorby user's can I question RE: spindle and bowl gouge angles ? Whats everyone using ?

Ive put a standard onto my spindle gouges all at 35deg's but was going to buy a 3/8th to put a finger nail grind on for finial work but found that using the proset the over hang is massive for 35 degs! Anyone noticed this ?

Also going for a fingernail grind on my bowl gouges whats recommended angle ? 50 ?

I couldn't tell you what angle I use but I sometimes put a secondary angle on a spindle gouge to give it some clearance.
I learnt this idea from a Cindy Drozda video but it can be seen here on a bowl gouge, about 19 mins in if you want to skip the rest.

https://youtu.be/AAocVE7X_3U

If I find the CD video I'll post a link.

Found it:

https://youtu.be/0ZOVj2Pb0y0

 

[CHJ]

Setting Block. 50mm.

Basic Bowl gouge on ProEdge with Jig set to 120 deg.

Three hole pivot

Original pivot, needed if your gouges are getting short in the steel due to handle fouling.

Results in a gouge with 45 deg to flute nose angle.

My bottom of bowl go-to gouge

in outer of the three hole pivot positions results in a 61 deg to flute nose angle.

But as many others have said before there is no right and wrong angles, it's a case of trying and seeing what angle best suits the way you hold the tools and the way you approach the work with your particular setup, the more you practice the more you are likely to get a feel for what suits you best and find easiest to get a good finish with.

 

[sploo]

Chas - thanks for the photos. As a brand new turner (with a Sorby) I'm keen to learn more, so this is useful.

Found it:

https://youtu.be/0ZOVj2Pb0y0

That's a really useful video. One of the things I'm struggling (with books, and even many videos) is to see the subtlies of exactly how a tool is controlled, and what part of the cutting edge is being used. I haven't seen any of Drozda's videos before, but whilst that was intended to demonstrate her particular grind, it was very helpful in understanding the required movement for different cuts.

 

[CHJ]

One of the most significant things you can do to get good gouge control is to keep the tool handle tucked into your body and control its path by pivoting you body not just your arms. Of course there are many situations when this is not possible but if you once experience the smooth flow of a cut by swinging your body you will translate a similar feel and support endeavour to other cuts.

 

[Bigbud78]

What grind would you suggest on a 3/8th spindle gouge ? I'm going to buy another to grind a detail gouge.
The sorby book recommends a 45 degree round grind, from what Ive read 35 degrees with a small fingernail grind seem the way to go ?

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

45 is good....35 is really for a detail gouge as the bevel is longer allowing access to narrow crevices at the base of beads/details. Many ppl use 30 for a detail gouge ie even finer but I've not been able to get to that fine on the PE due to handle fouling. 45 is good for a regular spindle gouge though.

 

[CHJ]

Until you have had a bit more experience I would stick to 45 deg or there about, there are other criteria that come into play when accessing detail that needs a shallower bevel that play a significant role in your ability to control a sliced cut etc. and the tendency to end up with a pointy profile if you are not carful with the abrasive dwell times can cause problems.

On my setup I add a 5mm spacer to my setting block making the tool extension 55mm.

And using the jig at 120 deg and the inner or short pivot block it results in a reasonably swept 45 deg. bevel.

When I've got a few minutes, (several requests to fill asap) I'll see what my detail gouge is set at but it's a home made unconventional animal and has not seen the PE yet.

 

[sploo]

One of the most significant things you can do to get good gouge control is to keep the tool handle tucked into your body and control its path by pivoting you body not just your arms. Of course there are many situations when this is not possible but if you once experience the smooth flow of a cut by swinging your body you will translate a similar feel and support endeavour to other cuts.

At the moment I'm more at the stage of what tool (and what movements) you'd use in order to create a particular shape. Getting good at making those movements smoothly will come later

The discussion on bevel angles is very useful though. I have a Crown 3/8" spindle gouge that I've used straight out of the packet (no reshaping or even sharpening yet), and I've ended up with two of their 3/8" bowl gouges. I've used neither yet, but I'm wondering if I could do a swept back/fingernail grind on at least one? I suppose at the moment I don't really know what I don't know, and haven't done any cross grain / faceplate turning yet as I'm trying to take the time to learn some spindle skills first. Or I would be if I'd sorted out my got-a-lathe haven't-got-a-lathe saga...

 

[CHJ]

Checked my tool rack whilst in shed and noted the 'pointiest' conventional spindle gouge I have.
Don't do much spindle or spindle detail work so they are not at the forefront of my tool armoury.

I checked its nose bevel angle and its still only 40 deg. in relation to the flute and it obviously needed some bevel heal relief for clearance on whatever tasks I last used it for..

It has always been sharpened on the grindstone with my own set of jig parameters but I offered it up to the PE and to achieve the same 40 deg. nose and sweep it had to be set at a 95mm protrusion in my jig.