More sharpening woes

[Phil Pascoe]

I don't suppose how anything is ground when new is really relevant - many people like plane irons and chisels hollow ground - but I don't recall seeing a new one like it. It's just what the manufacture find expedient, presumably. A hollow grind on a turning would possibly be an advantage if you use slip stones or diamond plates, but most turners I know never do.

 

[Rhossydd]

many people like plane irons and chisels hollow ground - but I don't recall seeing a new one like it.

Hock irons are hollow ground.
I don't see the point myself, as soon as you hone a second bevel the actual cutting edge becomes flat anyway. Or if you follow the convex curve brigade, it could become S shaped which seems even more perverse.

 

[Sheptonphil]

+1, will never go back to a wheel of any sort after a Proedge.

Phil

Out of curiosity what is it you don't like about cbn wheels ? In my mind they tick all the boxes- diameter doesn't change, no risk of wheel shattering, cutting edge is cool as a cucumber (I only quench now out of habit), fast cutting, cleaner.

Coley

I purchased th Pro Edge after going through the 6 and 8 inch white wheels, then the 10" slow wet system, found the constant truing of the wheel face a chore as turning gouge tools tended to groove the wheel too much after one use to then go straight to a wide flat blade like a plane.

Went to The Sorby and found a system that fitted my sharpening needs immediately. Whether gouge, scraper, plane or chisel I can jump between, easily changing the grit if I want a finer finish.

CBN wheels weren't around then, or certainly I never heard of them, as if I did I may never have gone to the Sorby and would probably have been happy with them.

But now I'm here with the Pro Edge, for sharpening, I never go back to a wheel.

I still have a grey 6" wheel for rough grinding though (not tools)".

Phil

 

[Bigbud78]

I think I'll most likely bite the bullet in a couple of weeks and get the sorby xD

 

[ColeyS1]

Don't knock it till you try it Phil

Coley

 

[sploo]

I purchased th Pro Edge after going through the 6 and 8 inch white wheels, then the 10" slow wet system, found the constant truing of the wheel face a chore as turning gouge tools tended to groove the wheel too much after one use to then go straight to a wide flat blade like a plane.

Went to The Sorby and found a system that fitted my sharpening needs immediately. Whether gouge, scraper, plane or chisel I can jump between, easily changing the grit if I want a finer finish.

CBN wheels weren't around then, or certainly I never heard of them, as if I did I may never have gone to the Sorby and would probably have been happy with them.

But now I'm here with the Pro Edge, for sharpening, I never go back to a wheel.

I still have a grey 6" wheel for rough grinding though (not tools)".

Phil

My experience (admittedly of heavy grinding restoration work with old plane irons and chisels) is that paper tends to wear out very quickly, but stone wheels remove much more material and last longer.

For day-to-day sharpening, do you find yourself having to change the paper belts on the Pro Edge quite often (vs the longer life of a wheel)?

 

[woodpig]

The Pro Edge doesn't use paper belts, they're fabric backed.

 

[sploo]

The Pro Edge doesn't use paper belts, they're fabric backed.

I'll rephrase then

The grit bonded to the substrate doesn't last very long when you ask it to do heavy grinding in my experience (vs using a stone wheel). Ignoring (valid) issues of having to dress a stone wheel, a wheel tends to last a lot longer than, say, a sanding belt or disc. It just feels to me like you'd be forever changing belts on the ProEdge, but I assume that's not really the case?

 

[TFrench]

I've used mine mainly for restoring bench chisels and plane irons so far as I've not had much chance to get the lathe out. Using a coarse belt gets a chisel back into shape in a matter of seconds. With the side plate off its a matter of seconds to swap belts and work up through the grits. All my lathe tools are razor sharp, and maintaining that edge is very easy. It also doesn't have the overheating problem of a wheel grinder (I did manage to blue one very misshapen old chisel when I wasn't paying attention though) I've done a lot of work with mine and still on the first coarse belt. Once you start working up the grits the wear on the belts is minimal anyway.

 

[Dalboy]

One of the problems with wear on a grinding wheel and having to constantly dress is that many will insist on grinding in the centre instead of spreading the wear across the whole width, I appreciate that the narrower wheels still will need redressing more frequently than a wider one.
Everyone has there favourite method of grinding their tools I personally don't think one is better than the other, I have been using a grinder all the time it does not make me a better or worse turner it is just a means at getting my tools sharp.

If you have loads of money to throw away then by all means go for a pro edge as long as it gets your tools as sharp as you want then great.

And then there are the ones that are too lazy to learn how to grind on a grinder, after all it was good enough for our forefathers. OK I,ll get my coat on that last statement. :twisted: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[woodpig]

I've used mine mainly for restoring bench chisels and plane irons so far as I've not had much chance to get the lathe out. Using a coarse belt gets a chisel back into shape in a matter of seconds. With the side plate off its a matter of seconds to swap belts and work up through the grits. All my lathe tools are razor sharp, and maintaining that edge is very easy. It also doesn't have the overheating problem of a wheel grinder (I did manage to blue one very misshapen old chisel when I wasn't paying attention though) I've done a lot of work with mine and still on the first coarse belt. Once you start working up the grits the wear on the belts is minimal anyway.

Yes, quite right. Being able to almost instantly change grits is a huge benefit a bench grinder simply can't match.
60 or 80 grit to reprofile or a 240 grit to give a final polish or just touch up an edge, all with the same jig setting. :wink:

You really need to actually use a Pro Edge to appreciate how good it is, and this is where many arguments fall down.

There is always the Robert Sorby 447 system though for those on a tight budget. The only downside being a hollow grind that some don't like on turning tools but you can't have everything. :lol:

 

[TFrench]

And then there are the ones that are too lazy to learn how to grind on a grinder, after all it was good enough for our forefathers. OK I,ll get my coat on that last statement. :twisted: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That's me! :lol:
I want to learn to make cool stuff with wood, not waste my time learning to do something I can do instantly with the proedge....
I'll get my coat too!

 

[duncanh]

To all you pro edge users - have you had a problem getting a long swept back grind? Last time I saw Martin Pidgeon he said that there was an issue with the Proedge which meant that some grinds were difficult/impossible to do on the machine. This includes one of the grinds that he prefers and would probably include several of mine.

I found this old thread which also mentions difficulty with some grinds.

Any thoughts?

 

[CHJ]

The only problems I had in achieving any of the extreme profiles were relating to clearance of the switch housing with gouge handles.

I overcame this by fitting a packer* under the support table and moving the platen further up the belt path to ensure belt support for any extra tool projection this causes with skew chisels.

* This does of course alter the relationship of the platform front edge to the belt when other than at 90 deg. but as most of my accessory jigs are home made and accommodate this it is OK.

My version of the Knife jig also differs in as much as I fit a false front surface packer to the platen to move the knife handles away from the basic structure rather than having to remove the basic platen and fit an alternate.
I also fit a support bar on the existing pivot bar rather than fit the alternate knife jig support as supplied by Sorby.
Reduces the reconfiguration effort if I want to sharpen a knife, the fact that it avoided the expenditure was well....

 

[Sheptonphil]

To all you pro edge users - have you had a problem getting a long swept back grind? Last time I saw Martin Pidgeon he said that there was an issue with the Proedge which meant that some grinds were difficult/impossible to do on the machine. This includes one of the grinds that he prefers and would probably include several of mine.

I found this old thread which also mentions difficulty with some grinds.

Any thoughts?

I have the full size Elsworth gouge with fully swept back wings and don't have a problem maintaining the edge with the extended long grind holder and jig.

Belts seem to go on and on, I have only used the Sorby ones, and have only worn one 120 grit out in a year. It's the ease of swapping grits, simplicity of all the built in angle settings and even if fingers get a little too close sometimes, it doesn't bite like a wheel. And it's so compact to boot, very little real estate taken up in the workshop.

As Marcos states, whatever gets the edge out on it, in any way you care to put it there, at a cost that is acceptable, with the learning curve you are prepared to put in, is go best way for you.

For me, it's the PE, guess I'm just too rich and lazy. (SWMBO would agree with half of that statement)

phil

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Four double ended grinders. I have no trouble changing grits.

 

[Sheptonphil]

Four double ended grinders. I have no trouble changing grits.

Touché

I'd need a bigger workshop :lol:

Phil

 

[JimB]

I'm curious as I've never used anything than a hollow grind. I touch up between grinds using a stone touching the heel and toe of the grind. Michael Dunbar describes such a technique in Woodturning for Cabinet Makers. Anyway, does using a flat grind mean you grind more often?

 

[Rhossydd]

does using a flat grind mean you grind more often?

I don't think it makes any difference.
Although as the SPE makes sharpening so much easier, I find I'm using it more often with a fine grit to just keeping a better edge on my tools more of the time. Which in turn makes life easier and results better.

 

[alexf]

Or you could make your own Pro-Edge type sharpener with an Aldi belt sander at 29.99.