Mock ye not !!

[iNewbie]

The Japanese keep traditional handskills in high regard. The word sharpening jig doesn't exist in their dictionary. :wink:

Maybe not yet, no - but like Dr. Johnson it'll be along, soon...

Jig


Dr. Johnson

 

[MIGNAL]

David Charlesworth seems to have gone very quiet, I would like to know what he thinks of Paul Sellers method of sharpening, I`ve been a fan of David`s method, not only for sharpening planes but also in fine tuning them, its methodical and accurately repeatable, Paul Sellers on the other hand, he seems a bit manic in almost everything he does, I recently watched a Youtube video of him making a workbench, the flattening of the top was almost laughable, I wonder how flat that top really was, I don`t think his work is what you would call fine furniture making, please feel free to prove me wrong.

No, he didn't work within 0.0001 mm. Why should he? What will it achieve? There's an expression called 'good enough'. We also use it in making very fine musical instruments. Unfortunately all the craftsmen are seemingly trying to mimic the products that are made by the factories and their CNC machines. Everything has been turned on it's head. Factories initially tried to mimic the work of the hand tool craftsmen. They couldn't achieve that aesthetic simply because it's virtually impossible to do with the use of machines. These days it's the craftsmen who are trying to get their work to look like the stuff that comes out of factories. Perfection. Sadly, much overrated.

 

[Cottonwood]

Credit to Mr Sellers, he is on a mission to get woodworking back to its basics of developing essential hand tool skills, not being overly reliant on machinery, and it being a fun, rewarding and creative activity. I think he deserves particular credit for attempting to get youngsters involved in woodworking as a hands on practical activity, rather than something that is noisy, dusty and dangerous

 

[Jacob]

.....Paul Sellers on the other hand, he seems a bit manic in almost everything he does, I recently watched a Youtube video of him making a workbench, the flattening of the top was almost laughable, I wonder how flat that top really was, I don`t think his work is what you would call fine furniture making, please feel free to prove me wrong.

Well it was a work bench, not fine furniture, so the flatness was almost certainly "flat enough".
Maybe laughable to you, but probably a great relief to beginners who just want to get a practical bench up and working.
Sellers seems good at getting people started with good basis of trad skills. It's up to them if they want to go on and develop in any particular way.
No one says the engineering approach (thous, microns, flattening, polishing, expensive tools, and all that jazz :roll: ) doesn't work, but it could put people off and/or leave them forever in the dark about highly effective traditional methods.

 

[AndyT]

Sellers on the other hand, he seems a bit manic in almost everything he does, I recently watched a Youtube video of him making a workbench, the flattening of the top was almost laughable, I wonder how flat that top really was, I don`t think his work is what you would call fine furniture making, please feel free to prove me wrong.

Fine furniture making by Paul Sellers:

See Paulsellers.com for more evidence.

 

[Cottonwood]

Sellers on the other hand, he seems a bit manic in almost everything he does, I recently watched a Youtube video of him making a workbench, the flattening of the top was almost laughable, I wonder how flat that top really was, I don`t think his work is what you would call fine furniture making, please feel free to prove me wrong.

Fine furniture making by Paul Sellers:

See Paulsellers.com for more evidence.

You dont get invited to make furniture for the White House if your a mdf and kreg pocket hole merchant.... :wink:

 

[mark w]

Andy T & Cottonwood, pictures of fine furniture indeed, I believe Mr Sellers was part of a team working at the White House.
Good point Jacob, the bench would get a beginner up and running, up to the point where they would need to plane something very flat, I suppose if you`re working mottos are near enough and flat enough then the Sellers bench would do.

 

[Jacob]

.... the bench would get a beginner up and running, up to the point where they would need to plane something very flat, .......

You don't need an especially flat bench to plane a piece of wood flat. Normal everyday flat will do. Un-flat can be coped with if necessary. Sellers bench no prob.

 

[mark w]

Jacob, I dissagree with you about bench flatness.

 

[Racers]

There are only two ways, Jacobs way and the wrong way.

Think I have mentioned this before :shock:

Pete

 

[mark w]

Pete what is this all about?
Pete, Mad Bad and Dangerous to Know
It doesn't have to scream to cut wood

I killed my dinner with karate
kick 'em in the face, taste the body
shallow work is the work that I do

do you want to sit at my table
my fighting fame is fabled
and fortune finds me fit and able

 

[woodbrains]

Jacob, I dissagree with you about bench flatness.

Hello,

Bench flatness was discussed at length in previous threads. The fact that wood deflects under the weight of the plane on a non- flat bench, so itself cannot be planed flat,
Was totally lost on Jacob then, as it s now. He obviously works to lesser parameters of flatness than others here.

Mike.

 

[Kalimna]

Slightly off topic, but I think I have worked it out.

Just
Another
Crock
Of
Bu....it

Sorry.
Adam

 

[Jacob]

Jacob, I dissagree with you about bench flatness.

Hello,

Bench flatness was discussed at length in previous threads. The fact that wood deflects under the weight of the plane on a non- flat bench, so itself cannot be planed flat,
Was totally lost on Jacob then, as it s now. He obviously works to lesser parameters of flatness than others here.

Mike.

A little wedge or two is the answer. In any case of the underside of a board isn't itself flat (as is usually the case when you start planing a sawn board) it makes no difference if the bench top is flat as a pancake. How would you cope? :lol:

 

[Racers]

Pete what is this all about?
Pete, Mad Bad and Dangerous to Know
It doesn't have to scream to cut wood

I killed my dinner with karate
kick 'em in the face, taste the body
shallow work is the work that I do

do you want to sit at my table
my fighting fame is fabled
and fortune finds me fit and able

Well the last 6 lines are from a song I like.

Johanna Newsome The book of right on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDQIGraR3aI

Pete

 

[Jacob]

Are you really Mad Bad and Dangerous to Know? A big hairy psychopath covered in tattoos?

PS and what's wrong with the Sellers bench? If you really want it flatter surely you'd just plane it (err..) flatter? There's nothing about it to prevent this, is there?

 

[Racers]

Big-ish hairy-ish and defiantly a biker, no tattoos.

Google, Mad Bad and Dangerous to Know

Pete

 

[Cottonwood]

Jacob, I dissagree with you about bench flatness.

Hello,

Bench flatness was discussed at length in previous threads. The fact that wood deflects under the weight of the plane on a non- flat bench, so itself cannot be planed flat,
Was totally lost on Jacob then, as it s now. He obviously works to lesser parameters of flatness than others here.

Mike.

Is your bench as flat as an engineers surface plate (AAA) or better? If its not your fighting a losing battle, and your illusion of flatness is unobtainable. #-o
Why not simply operate a CNC machine instead?

 

[Cheshirechappie]

At the risk of being drawn into yet another pointless debate, may I respectfully suggest that a bench should be about as flat as you want the work done on it to be.

Wood has a certain amount of 'give' (not much, especially in the denser tropical varieties, but some nonetheless), so the sort of flatness associated with Calibration Grade surface plates would not be appropriate, but if you need wedges under the workpiece in the final stages of planing to hold it flat enough, the bench isn't flat enough to start with.

It's not really that tricky. All you need are a try plane, a reliable straightedge and a pair of winding sticks. Check the bench top over, and plane off the high bits. Repeat until the high bits are all level with the low bits. Working across the grain to start with usually needs less effort, then a final finishing cut with the grain. You can tooth the surface if you wish, some say it makes it a bit 'grippier'. Since almost everything I plane is held between dogs or in the vice, I leave the surface as it finishes from the try plane, and that seems to work OK for me.

It may be worth checking the bench surface annually, but once a bench has settled down from new - say a couple of years, it generally won't want much correction unless the surface is roughened up and needs cleaning.

 

[mark w]

Cheshirechappie, nicely put.
Pete, thanks for explaining.
Jacob, I still disagree.
Cottonwood, probably not, but very flat, no thanks to the CNC.