Mobile speed Camera Vans

[MickCheese]

Does anyone know if the cost of maintaining a 60mph road is more than maintaining a 40mph road. Is the level of maintenance more stringent?

I suspect dropping the speed limits has something to do with cost saving.

Mick

 

[Lons]

I drive over 100,000 miles a year so I see a fair amount of the road and it happens all the time.
You leave a gap and they're in.
Even when there is no gap, they're in.

Well not near Middleton by Wirksworth apparently :lol: :lol:

 

[Walter Hall]

Hmmm. Eight pages of people attempting to justify their own driving styles mostly by means of spouting either pompous tripe or self righteous tosh.

Bob's point in the opening post surely is that the deployment of the mobile camera appears to be targeted at income generation rather than safety. I know the roads he refers to very well and can only agree. The camera would, as he suggests, be better located near accident black spots within a mile or so of its location in the disused petrol station.

It might then deter the shever clites from doing 80mph past the garden centre in question. It would not however prevent dozy old buffers from pulling out in front of traffic doing the legal limit of 60mph.

 

[JustBen]

Some of the road laws are out of date and nonsense.

For instance.
All vehicles over 7.5t are restricted to 60/56mph (I can't remember which)..... Except for buses and coaches which weight 18t+
How is that logical?
Presumably they are restricted to reduce damage that would occur in an accident so how is a bus or coach different?

So it's ok for 18t+ of coach to be flying down the motorway at 70mph but not the little 7.5t flatbed.....hmmm

 

[Lons]

Hey Bob, my god 7 pages and most of it rubbish, Baldhead Edit: it's now 8 pages!

It's going to go around in circles until a mod says "enough"

My original point that a camera van is being used in a "safe" but profitable area instead of a less profitable but unsafe road to save lives and injuries seems like a million years ago

Bob

Edit: Sorry Walter, just seen your post which must have crossed mine. Have been working in Morpeth today. have a long wheelbase van and an 8 x 4 twin axel trailer. Was doing 55 past Heighleygates when a souped up corsa (well tiddly engine but bodykit and soilpipe exhaust) overtook me across toi chevrons with oncoming traffic. Four young lads very lucky not to have caused a major accident. Speed van or patrol car would have been in the old entrance and caught him. You will know well just how many incidents there are at that location :?

 

[Walter Hall]

Yep, At Heighley Gate we have long slope up from the A1 in one direction with slow lorries ( and sensible van drivers) for the speed merchants to overtake and a long straight from the other direction for them to get up to three figure speeds as they overtake the 40mph sloths that have been frustrating them for the last ten miles. The location itself is a staggered junction with a garden centre full of pensioners and mums taking their kids to see Santa Claus on one side and a fair few tractors thrown into the equation.

At the disused petrol station we have a long sweeping curve with wide verges and good visibilty for half a mile in both directions and much lower traffic volumes.

Where would you (any of you, not just Bob) put the camera to have the greatest impact on safety?

 

[Baldhead]

Hey Bob, my god 7 pages and most of it rubbish, Baldhead Edit: it's now 8 pages!

It's going to go around in circles until a mod says "enough"

My original point that a camera van is being used in a "safe" but profitable area instead of a less profitable but unsafe road to save lives and injuries seems like a million years ago

Bob

Edit: Sorry Walter, just seen your post which must have crossed mine. Have been working in Morpeth today. have a long wheelbase van and an 8 x 4 twin axel trailer. Was doing 55 past Heighleygates when a souped up corsa (well tiddly engine but bodykit and soilpipe exhaust) overtook me across toi chevrons with oncoming traffic. Four young lads very lucky not to have caused a major accident. Speed van or patrol car would have been in the old entrance and caught him. You will know well just how many incidents there are at that location :?

Bob I had the misfortune of being in duty one morning when a taxi driver went underneath an HGV which had parked up in the lay-by opposite the garden centre waiting for it to open, two or three kiddies in the car, one in a child seat so they were sitting at the same height as the driver, the outcome was horrible, the HGV driver was crossing over the road and the taxi's roof was ripped off by the chassis, police blamed HGV driver saying he should not have turned right out of the lay-by and also said the taxi was possibly speeding (no skid marks)
One part of the job I don't miss.

Baldhead

 

[RogerS]

Here's a thought. The country lane that our track exits onto has a speed limit of 60mph. No-one but a lunatic would drive at that speed. They could though because that is the speed limit. But most people don't. Most people exercise their commonsense and judgement and drive at a more suitable speed. A speed to suit the road and weather conditions. A speed to be able to see far enough ahead to stop if needed. So the 60mph speed limit is irrelevant.

Now apply the same argument to the rest of our roads.

Game. Set. Match.

 

[Lons]

Bob I had the misfortune of being in duty one morning when a taxi driver went underneath an HGV which had parked up in the lay-by opposite the garden centre waiting for it to open, two or three kiddies in the car, one in a child seat so they were sitting at the same height as the driver, the outcome was horrible, the HGV driver was crossing over the road and the taxi's roof was ripped off by the chassis, police blamed HGV driver saying he should not have turned right out of the lay-by and also said the taxi was possibly speeding (no skid marks)
One part of the job I don't miss. Baldhead

I don't envy you one bit, horrible job especially if like me you can't stand the sight of blood :lol: Just one of the many and regular accidents on that few hundred yard stretch.

As an aside, it's about 13 or 14 years since my daughter was quite badly injured in a serious accident at the top of the moor which closed the road for several hours. The firemen had to cut her out, were you at the scene?
The worst part of that accident was that she was late from her shift at the hospital and we saw the blue lights from our house. My wife "knew" it was her and was really panicked until we managed to get to the scene and found she was alive. A week or so in ICU is bearable as are scars - she was so lucky!

Speed wasn't an issue in that accident BTW as the police estimated she was doing about 40mph but it was her fault as she was extremely tired following a 12 hour shift at the hospital and drifted just over the white line as an oncoming van did the same. Her reactions were impaired and she wasn't quick enough to avoid a collision.

Bob

 

[MMUK]

Even when there is no gap, they're in.

I have to admit there are plenty of times when I have to do this myself to get anywhere. So many people resent you filtering in in front of them :roll:

Of course it's always handy having either a big white van or my Twingo 133 shoebox. I'm either driving something big enough to make people think twice or small enough to fit under a Landy bumper :lol:

 

[MMUK]

Does anyone know if the cost of maintaining a 60mph road is more than maintaining a 40mph road. Is the level of maintenance more stringent?

I suspect dropping the speed limits has something to do with cost saving.

Mick

On the 60/70mph roads there's the cost of safety barriers to consider that you don't normally get on lower limit roads

 

[Phil Pascoe]

It's not constant speeds that cause the wear, it's rapid acceleration and hard braking. Exactly what varying speed limits in many areas do.

 

[Walter Hall]

Here's a thought. The country lane that our track exits onto has a speed limit of 60mph. No-one but a lunatic would drive at that speed. They could though because that is the speed limit. But most people don't. Most people exercise their commonsense and judgement and drive at a more suitable speed. A speed to suit the road and weather conditions. A speed to be able to see far enough ahead to stop if needed. So the 60mph speed limit is irrelevant.

Now apply the same argument to the rest of our roads.

Game. Set. Match.

A valid point Roger, but I regret that you are premature in awarding yourself game, set and match for it. Why? Because it relies upon people exercising their common sense and judgement. Even if most do there will always be those who either have none or choose not to exercise it. Hence the speed limits remain a necessity.

 

[Jacob]

Here's a thought. The country lane that our track exits onto has a speed limit of 60mph. No-one but a lunatic would drive at that speed. They could though because that is the speed limit. But most people don't. Most people exercise their commonsense and judgement and drive at a more suitable speed. A speed to suit the road and weather conditions. A speed to be able to see far enough ahead to stop if needed. So the 60mph speed limit is irrelevant.

Now apply the same argument to the rest of our roads.

Game. Set. Match.

Specific speed limits are applied on roads which are prone to accidents, which of course are made worse by high speeds. Your lane isn't prone to accidents, hence the absence of a limit. If there was a problem with accidents (funny bends, narrow bridges, whatever) you might expect appropriate notices, not necessarily speed limits if speeding isn't an issue.

 

[RogerS]

Here's a thought. The country lane that our track exits onto has a speed limit of 60mph. No-one but a lunatic would drive at that speed. They could though because that is the speed limit. But most people don't. Most people exercise their commonsense and judgement and drive at a more suitable speed. A speed to suit the road and weather conditions. A speed to be able to see far enough ahead to stop if needed. So the 60mph speed limit is irrelevant.

Now apply the same argument to the rest of our roads.

Game. Set. Match.

A valid point Roger, but I regret that you are premature in awarding yourself game, set and match for it. Why? Because it relies upon people exercising their common sense and judgement. Even if most do there will always be those who either have none or choose not to exercise it. Hence the speed limits remain a necessity.

No, you're not following my line of reasoning. It is perfectly clear to me that in the example I have provided that the speed limit is irrelevant. If anyone does not exercise their common sense then they are also going to ignore the speed limit. The speed limit is irrelevant. It is driving at the right speed for the road and weather conditions.

 

[Walter Hall]

No, you're not following my line of reasoning. It is perfectly clear to me that in the example I have provided that the speed limit is irrelevant. If anyone does not exercise their common sense then they are also going to ignore the speed limit. The speed limit is irrelevant. It is driving at the right speed for the road and weather conditions.

OK fair enough. In the example you have given the speed limit is most probably inappropriate and thus irrelevant in the context of travelling safely along that stretch of road. I also agree that in the wider context of driving safely speed limits and speed itself are only two factors amongst many.

My point however is that this does not render all speed limits irrelevant per se. If we did not have speed limits then, in the event of an incident occurring, the decision as to whether or not the speed someone involved was travelling at was appropriate or not would then come down to the subjective judgement of the law enforcement agencies against that of the person involved. An unnecessary strain on the enforcement system and your and my taxes that is avoided by the blunt but necessary instrument of speed limits. Speed limits also give a broad indication, to those who are unable to judge sensibly for themselves, of what might approximate to a reasonable speed on a particular stretch of road.

And once again we are digressing some way from Bob's original point about the appropriate location of temporary cameras. I apologise for my part in this digression.

 

[bugbear]

No, you're not following my line of reasoning. It is perfectly clear to me that in the example I have provided that the speed limit is irrelevant. If anyone does not exercise their common sense then they are also going to ignore the speed limit. The speed limit is irrelevant. It is driving at the right speed for the road and weather conditions.

The speed limit is extremely relevant to the possibility of bringing them before a magistrate for breaking the law, and giving them large fines and ultimately taking away their license.

BugBear

 

[RogerS]

No, you're not following my line of reasoning. It is perfectly clear to me that in the example I have provided that the speed limit is irrelevant. If anyone does not exercise their common sense then they are also going to ignore the speed limit. The speed limit is irrelevant. It is driving at the right speed for the road and weather conditions.

The speed limit is extremely relevant to the possibility of bringing them before a magistrate for breaking the law, and giving them large fines and ultimately taking away their license.

BugBear

No it isn't. Please read what I posted.

 

[JustBen]

Whilst the topic of speed cameras and other things partly related are being discussed, could anyone tell me exactly how average speed cameras work?

ie... How do they calculate it?

For example if there are 4 cameras on a stretch (A, B, C & D)

If you go through camera A to D, do they calculate your average between A & D or A-B B-C C-D?

 

[RogerS]

Whilst the topic of speed cameras and other things partly related are being discussed, could anyone tell me exactly how average speed cameras work?

ie... How do they calculate it?

For example if there are 4 cameras on a stretch (A, B, C & D)

If you go through camera A to D, do they calculate your average between A & D or A-B B-C C-D?

I'd guess that it is average speed between any two cameras. They really are a pain in the butt when you are driving down a motorway at 5am on a Sunday morning and nary a workman to be seen. No other drivers either. But I guess someone will come along and say that a tractor might pull out or a rabbit jump out onto the carriageway.

More info here