milwaukee 12v versus bosch 10.8v

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Max Power

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Anyone got first hand experience of the small milwaukee drills and the bosch versions, which would you recommend ?
 
Hi Alan,

I have the Milwaukee and think it's spot on.

Decent power and battery life for 12 volts, useful battery indicator on it and very quick charge and has a very nice robust feel to it, obviously haven't got the Bosch to compare it against as I was torn between the two myself, however I'm pleased with my choice.

Hope that helps.

Phil
 
Alan, I'd avoid the Bosch. I've got the full kit including the multi cutter, impact driver and drill/driver; they're all very underpowered, especially the impact driver. Used my mates Milwaukee and it's miles better.
HTH Kieran
 
I can't comment on either make as I haven't used them but, for a long while, I was eyeing up the Bosch pack (partly because of the compatibility with batteries across their 10.8v range). In the end, Metabo came out with their own drills just before Christmas and I bought these purely because the drill/driver comes with an excellent angle/driver attachment, which none of the others appear to have.

Both are good at driving screws though, I haven't yet had a chance to use them extensively or to push them towards their limitations. As a drill though, the drill/driver is probably a little underpowered - I found yesterday that it struggled to drill a 10mm hole through 4in of softwood (2in of was a decades-old; the other half was new wood) though, I was only using a cheap spade bit...

If you do go for the Bosch drills, be sure to go for the set which includes the 2-Li drill/driver (not to be confused with Li-2, etc.!!) as this one comes with a proper keyless chuck. Its two predecessors only have magnetic hex-chucks, IIRC. :p

Milwaukee's drills are certain to be more powerful though, because of the extra voltage! :-D

Hope this might help. :)
 
OPJ":198mm58o said:
Milwaukee's drills are certain to be more powerful though, because of the extra voltage! :-D

Hmm... Assuming this is referring to the Milwaukee 'M12' range, unless they have a totally different cell technology to normal lithium ion batteries, these are likely to be 10.8v the same as Bosch, and others.
Where a Nickel Metal Hydride or Nickel Cadmium battery will hold 1.2volts per cell, a typical Lithium Ion will hold 3.6volts, so doing the maths, its an impossibility to link cells and get a 12 volt configuration, you have 3.6, 7.2, 10.8, 14.4, 18volt etc.
Looking at the cloverleaf design of the battery pack it indicates three cells, so a 10.8volt.
However, having spoken to many different manufacturers since the launch of Li Ion batteries, I have been told that although the cell structure is based around a 3.6 voltage, when fully charged the do retain a slightly higher capacity for a very brief time, so put on a volt meter can register that higher value of 12volts in a three cell cluster, but its accepted across the board (in most instances...) that the true workable retention capacity of the lithium ion platform is 3.6volts per cell.
You can find this anomaly in other manufacturers spec as well - Worx also currently tag theirs as 12 volt as I recall.
Therefore, although the Milwaukee may outperform others this is likely down to the build quality, gears etc.

hope this helps.

cheers,
Andy
 
It's even more complicated than that.

One other issue is that power doesn't equate to voltage. Yes, a given voltage can dissipate more power through a given resistance, but if low-voltage tools are properly designed, their batteries are inherently more efficient, simply because they contain fewer, larger cells. In turn, these can deliver significantly more current to the motor, sometimes several times more. And power is proportional to voltage, but to to current squared. The magnetic flux density of the field is also proportional to current too (IIRC).

Another issue is energy density: higher-voltage cordless tools contain more cells. This means more cell casings, packing, connecting cables/straps, plastic and air. These batteries actually have considerably poorer energy density (Joules per cubic centimetre) than lower-voltage ones, and users of higher-voltage tools are actually carrying around a disproportionate amount of unwanted air and gubbins inside the battery pack, instead of useful chemistry.

Yet another problem is charge management. It's long been axiomatic that for efficiency and longevity, rechargeable batteries should be charged as single cells, not as batteries. In other words, each cell should be handled separately, and you should never just put, say, 13.5V across a 12V battery of 10 NiCad cells.

In practice this is largely ignored for cheapness. Batteries made this way almost invariably fail when one cell dies early, either through reverse charging (continuing to use the device when the battery is nearly flat), or overcharging (it reaches full charge before the others and boils off its electrolyte).

To counteract this, the better battery manufacturers will select and match cells based on actual capacity, so they charge and discharge together. You've a slim/zero chance of buying this sort of battery in a power tool, as the manufacturing process is simply too expensive for such a competitive market. It follows then, that the more cells there are in a 'cheap' battery, the more likely that they aren't all well matched, and that one will fail prematurely.

'Intelligent' charge management chips usually monitor time, charging current and sometimes temperature (arguably better), but they almost never charge individual cells separately. The last battery pack/charger set I saw that did, cost in excess of £5,000 and was for a very expensive piece of broadcasting equipment. So it is done, but realistically for us, battery packs will always die one cell at a time. The fewer the number of cells, the less dramatic this effect is.

The cell's nominal voltage is determined, incidentally, by the battery chemistry. For example, Lead acid (car battery) cells are always 2V, zinc carbon (old torch batteries) 1.5v, and NiCd. 1.2V.

I've no doubt that the higher voltage tools exert more force when you pull the trigger. The tool manaufacturers' marketers want it like that. It doesn't mean, though, that the design is inherently better nor that you get value for money.
 
I have the Milwaukee 12v and the 18v version ,which includes the impact driver and all i can say is a fantastic product and the only product where i shall buy new batteries ! Top buy !
 
I got the Makita version and I think it's great, most of my cordless stuff is Makita. £110 of the 'Bay. Maybe worth considering as another option? Just my 2 penneth. Cheers _Dan.
 
I've been really happy with my Milwaukee 18v compact drill--except when it's cold. This winter I've been letting my shop get down to 5-10C (40's F) when I'm not in it, and the lithium battery simply doesn't work when it's that cold. I have to set them on the heater to warm up to get any kind of power or life out of them, even when straight out of the charger. Of course, this will apply to any LI tool, I'd say. I had a (recently deceased) Dewalt 14.4V drill with a NiCad battery, and it worked much better at that temp.

Kirk
 
Radio controlled car racing enthusiasts used to put NiCd batteries in the freezer before charging, to get extra oomph out of them in a race, but lithium-based ones don't work at all well at low temp.

It's a problem for wildlife film makers in the Arctic, as most modern camera stuff is lithium.
 
Just out of interest, how much 'power' do you guys expect from these things? Just ask as I regard mine as small, almost 'pocket' tools for lightweight use - small-bore drilling and driving into softwood and MDF, hinges and handles, that sort of thing; I'd never put a spade bit in one, though I have used mine to drill into brick when a customer sprung something on me one day - took a while but worked fine. If I knew I needed a drill for something more beefy then I'd use something else, personally.

i met a sparky on a job the other day and he had the Screwfix Erbauer set - drill/driver and impact driver for something like £90 - and it seemed to do just what he needed. I have the Bosch, and it does what I want, on a wider range of tools - though the multitool chews through the batteries; OTOH I always have it with me, whereas I don't always carry the MultiMaster...

Whatever suits the work you do I guess?

Cheers, Pete
 
I bought the Bosch 10.8 volt set and have mixed views on it.

The screwdriver/drill is very good and I regularly drive large screws into softwoods like 5X80mm turbo golds into clean pine. I would say this is this tools limit and not to be used like this all the time. Smaller length and diameter screws are no problem at all.

The impact driver on the other hand is worthless IMO. It will not drive larger screws like the above driver does and all it does is make a blooming racket! Yes it will drive smaller screws OK but it still makes that awful noise and I fail to see the point as the other driver is both quicker and almost silent?? Maybe mine was duff from new but I never use it.

The angle driver is handy when needed but not used often. Mine seems less powerful than the drill/driver but is OK driving up to 50mm screws or so.

I use the drill/driver daily and regularly over stress it. I love the size and weight and it fits the hand well. Great for driving screws and OK for drilling small holes in wood if a little slow. A nice little tool biased toward srew driving but won't replace a proper drill for heavier work.

Steve.
 
just to throw a curve ball here :) I am using Dewalt 12v ni-cads with a few li ions batteries in the tool bag. I've had the oldest drill driver for 18 years and its on its second ni cads.
over the years I've used nearly all makes and voltages, and tbh I think the new generation are much better BUT too expensive :x ! The ones I like the best, but as yet don't need are the Milwaukee.

K
 
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