MFT sacrificial top

[Lockwood]

Hello all,

I have a mobile workshop set up in the back of my Luton van, and I'd like to upgrade it to having an MFT style workbench. I have a 12mm birch ply bench in there currently, which is approximate 3000mm x 700mm, and my current thought is to buy a sacrificial top (perhaps 9mm thick) that has an MFT hole layout pre-cut into it. I'd attach the sacrificial top to the bench, and then using a flush trim bit I'd use the sacrificial top as a jig to cut the MFT holes into my bench proper. The idea is that at periodic intervals I can replace the top without worry about having to replace the bench (which is built into position, and integral to the bench as a whole).

I had a few questions, and I was wondering if anybody had some wisdom on it:

1. Does anybody know a supplier (CNC workshop?) that makes this kind of sacrificial top? Minimum required size would be 2440mm x 600mm, but the full 3000mm x 700mm would be best for me if available.
2. Is 9mm a good thickness, or would 6mm be fine for 'sacrifice'? I want to keep the weight down, so whatever is lightest would suit me best. Due to the bench underneath strength is not an issue.
3. Assuming 9mm thickness, will the various MFT accessories (of which I know next to nothing about) function with a bench thickness of 9mm+12mm=21mm?
4. I've no experience with MFT, my understanding is that I'll benefit from easy clamping and the ability to square up sheet materials using bench dogs. Are there other features that you find particularly helpful?
5. Finally, (and this is a side-question) as part of the upgrade I've removed my tablesaw, realising that I only needed it for repetitive ripping of smaller parts. Have any of you developed an effective way (potentially utilising the MFT set-up) to duplicate this function using a Festool TS55 track saw? I have 1400 and 3000 long rails.

Thanks everyone! (I can upload pictures if it's helpful)

Jonathan

 

[Chrispy]

Yes I can do that for you, I'm in Wantage.

 

[Woody Alan]

I heard Peter Millard say on a you tube video he was possibly getting rid of his table saw as he had a way of ripping small bits developed. However don't know if he's made a video. He's on here as a member you could try messaging him.

 

[Spectric]

at @petermillard

 

[BucksDad]

Keep up people Peter has pre-ordered/bought a new tablesaw - the new Festool CSC-SYS

 

[Spectric]

That is a lot of money for such a small saw, but as Peter said the Axminster was not available and he does not have a 16 amp supply. I would think that you are paying for the cordless aspect where it would allow you to turn up in the middle of nowhere to do a job without lugging a generator.

The bit that I don't fully get is that Pete is such an MFT guy and has done so much work on this type of setup for years and has hit a point where he needs a table saw which as yet I don't fully get so perhaps more video's @petermillard . Is it that you are wanting to rip long lengths or maybe looking to use real wood or as you said you just need to have a spend up as you realise you cannot take your youtube millions with you !!

 

[BucksDad]

If you watched his videos Spectric you'd know Watch his mondrian table build and then watch this video from 5:20 in

 

[Lonsdale73]

Hello all,

I have a mobile workshop set up in the back of my Luton van, and I'd like to upgrade it to having an MFT style workbench. I have a 12mm birch ply bench in there currently, which is approximate 3000mm x 700mm, and my current thought is to buy a sacrificial top (perhaps 9mm thick) that has an MFT hole layout pre-cut into it. I'd attach the sacrificial top to the bench, and then using a flush trim bit I'd use the sacrificial top as a jig to cut the MFT holes into my bench proper. The idea is that at periodic intervals I can replace the top without worry about having to replace the bench (which is built into position, and integral to the bench as a whole).

I had a few questions, and I was wondering if anybody had some wisdom on it:

1. Does anybody know a supplier (CNC workshop?) that makes this kind of sacrificial top? Minimum required size would be 2440mm x 600mm, but the full 3000mm x 700mm would be best for me if available.
2. Is 9mm a good thickness, or would 6mm be fine for 'sacrifice'? I want to keep the weight down, so whatever is lightest would suit me best. Due to the bench underneath strength is not an issue.
3. Assuming 9mm thickness, will the various MFT accessories (of which I know next to nothing about) function with a bench thickness of 9mm+12mm=21mm?
4. I've no experience with MFT, my understanding is that I'll benefit from easy clamping and the ability to square up sheet materials using bench dogs. Are there other features that you find particularly helpful?
5. Finally, (and this is a side-question) as part of the upgrade I've removed my tablesaw, realising that I only needed it for repetitive ripping of smaller parts. Have any of you developed an effective way (potentially utilising the MFT set-up) to duplicate this function using a Festool TS55 track saw? I have 1400 and 3000 long rails.

Thanks everyone! (I can upload pictures if it's helpful)

Jonathan

5) How small is small? It's perfectly possible to make repeat cuts by laying out dogs to square rail to workpiece and use a stop to give the desired width, eg for ripping panels into strips where the rest of the panel supports the rail. Not quite so good for sizing strip wood as there's insufficient support to the rail. I attached my mitresaw to a base board and fitted some dog-sized dowels on the underside so it could slot into the MFT and not move all over the place. I also had some support arms, level with surface of the mitresaw and flush with the fence, inset with some Incra T-track and a stop to get repeatable cuts. Not exactly a Jay Bates Mitresaw Station Deluxe but great for my "every inch of workspace needs to be multi-function" requirements

 

[HOJ]

as part of the upgrade I've removed my tablesaw, realising that I only needed it for repetitive ripping of smaller parts. Have any of you developed an effective way (potentially utilising the MFT set-up) to duplicate this function using a Festool TS55 track saw? I have 1400 and 3000 long rails.

I've tried but its a real faff to do, the rail needs support underneath to sit on, then trying to line it up to a cutting line, I wouldn't ditch the table saw option.

 

[Jameshow]

Hello all,

I have a mobile workshop set up in the back of my Luton van, and I'd like to upgrade it to having an MFT style workbench. I have a 12mm birch ply bench in there currently, which is approximate 3000mm x 700mm, and my current thought is to buy a sacrificial top (perhaps 9mm thick) that has an MFT hole layout pre-cut into it. I'd attach the sacrificial top to the bench, and then using a flush trim bit I'd use the sacrificial top as a jig to cut the MFT holes into my bench proper. The idea is that at periodic intervals I can replace the top without worry about having to replace the bench (which is built into position, and integral to the bench as a whole).

I had a few questions, and I was wondering if anybody had some wisdom on it:

1. Does anybody know a supplier (CNC workshop?) that makes this kind of sacrificial top? Minimum required size would be 2440mm x 600mm, but the full 3000mm x 700mm would be best for me if available.
2. Is 9mm a good thickness, or would 6mm be fine for 'sacrifice'? I want to keep the weight down, so whatever is lightest would suit me best. Due to the bench underneath strength is not an issue.
3. Assuming 9mm thickness, will the various MFT accessories (of which I know next to nothing about) function with a bench thickness of 9mm+12mm=21mm?
4. I've no experience with MFT, my understanding is that I'll benefit from easy clamping and the ability to square up sheet materials using bench dogs. Are there other features that you find particularly helpful?
5. Finally, (and this is a side-question) as part of the upgrade I've removed my tablesaw, realising that I only needed it for repetitive ripping of smaller parts. Have any of you developed an effective way (potentially utilising the MFT set-up) to duplicate this function using a Festool TS55 track saw? I have 1400 and 3000 long rails.

Thanks everyone! (I can upload pictures if it's helpful)

Jonathan

How about a small site saw for cross cutting something like the DeWalt or Excell 210mm saws.

 

[petermillard]

That is a lot of money for such a small saw, but as Peter said the Axminster was not available and he does not have a 16 amp supply. I would think that you are paying for the cordless aspect where it would allow you to turn up in the middle of nowhere to do a job without lugging a generator.

The bit that I don't fully get is that Pete is such an MFT guy and has done so much work on this type of setup for years and has hit a point where he needs a table saw which as yet I don't fully get so perhaps more video's @petermillard . Is it that you are wanting to rip long lengths or maybe looking to use real wood or as you said you just need to have a spend up as you realise you cannot take your youtube millions with you !!

Well, as I say in this vid Roy, I feel I’ve pretty much reached the limits of what I can do with the MFT/tracksaw/mitresaw with small workpieces, and I expect to be doing more of those. The table saws I had previously weren’t really worth a damn - certainly in terms of precision and repeatability - and if they’re not accurate and consistent then what’s the point?

Yes, it’s a lot for a small saw - though well within the budget I set for this - but then I don’t need capacity, I need something for small, precise cuts in small workpieces; I don’t need it to be cordless - but I’m not going to be running hundreds of metres of solid wood through it at max. capacity either, so I don’t expect it to be an issue for me. But as I also say, it’s a bit of a leap of a faith when you buy a big-ticket item like this; you never really know if it’s right for you until you have it in your own workshop - by which time you’ve already bought it.

 

[TRITON]

you just need to have a spend up as you realise you cannot take your youtube millions with you !!

Are you sure about that ?.

I've always had my suspicions that the afterlife is run by some very very rich Egyptians

 

[Spectric]

I've always had my suspicions that the afterlife is run by some very very rich Egyptians

But all those bandages are not very safe if using power tools !

 

[Spectric]

Some of these threads certainly get you thinking.

I feel I’ve pretty much reached the limits of what I can do with the MFT/tracksaw/mitresaw with small workpieces

You have to ask just how small are you going, at the end of the day you are still cutting using a blade with teeth. From my metal background when you want a precise finished surface you use a grinder not a saw or a lathe. So with wood is the router not an option to get precise well finished pieces ?

What is not working for the small pieces, I gather from the video they are more like offcuts so is it the cut itself or the squareness which is going to be more difficult with very small pieces.

I will have to find time and watch more video's but once you semi retire you seem to have even less time than when you worked full time which is amazing and I am having to juggle various task from doing the house, improving my wood working skills to getting on top of the latest IDE's for FPGA's and still living.

 

[petermillard]

Some of these threads certainly get you thinking.

You have to ask just how small are you going, at the end of the day you are still cutting using a blade with teeth. From my metal background when you want a precise finished surface you use a grinder not a saw or a lathe. So with wood is the router not an option to get precise well finished pieces ?

What is not working for the small pieces, I gather from the video they are more like offcuts so is it the cut itself or the squareness which is going to be more difficult with very small pieces.

I will have to find time and watch more video's but once you semi retire you seem to have even less time than when you worked full time which is amazing and I am having to juggle various task from doing the house, improving my wood working skills to getting on top of the latest IDE's for FPGA's and still living.

One man’s offcut is another’s workpiece Roy! I made a Mondrian-style table where some of the pieces weren’t much more than 19mm cubes; these pieces were then glued together stained-glass-window style, to make the whole, so any tiny discrepancies were magnified. So, bottom line is that I’m looking for something that can provide precise, glue ready cuts in small workpieces; I’m not sure this Festool saw is it, but I’m prepared to buy it and try it.

Cheers. P

 

[seanf]

I’m not sure this Festool saw is it, but I’m prepared to buy it and try it

I'm looking forward to hearing/seeing your feedback Peter. I don’t need a table saw, but it is certainly a very tempting machine! I do wonder if they will eventually come out with a 240v version (maybe an updated TKS) aimed at small workshops or if they will stick with it as a solely battery powered mobile option. I don’t think I have seen anything about it having the SawStop safety feature either, perhaps due to size restrictions

Sean

 

[Spectric]

I made a Mondrian-style table where some of the pieces weren’t much more than 19mm cubes

I have watched that several times, I think your ultra creative streak is emerging. Working on such small pieces you are entering the world of model making and I think you will find that an even smaller machine may be needed maybe with just a 4 inch blade.

 

[TomGW]

To go back to the OP’s question, I use a 6mm sacrificial top with holes roughly 30mm to keep well clear of interfering with dogs etc. A couple of countersunk screws hold it in place. The advantage is that there’s no precision needed in making a new sacrificial top so it can easily be replaced in minutes.
TBH, if you’re simply cutting sheets squarely an MFT isn’t needed at all. Just a straight, raised strip fixed along the back or front edge of your bench and two dog holes to set the track square to the raised strip.

 

[Lockwood]

Wow, I hadn't realised this was all going on in the thread! Thanks for all the responses, there is a lot of valuable information here.

Some context:

I currently have the DeWalt 745L, which I bought back in 2014. It's been a punchy little saw, and has worked pretty well. The issue that I have is that there is only so much weight you can have in the back of a Luton van, and since I've been steadily moving away from doing all sorts of different 'weird and wonderful' carpentry jobs into more MDF/plywood cabinetmaking (alcove carpentry is how I try to describe it) I've found I've used the saw less. I still carry an assortment of off-cuts in lengths 600mm up to 3500mm to help me overcome unforeseen situations, but I wasn't sure that the tablesaw was worth it's weight.

Additionally, the outfeed required for the saw (I have two different work-heights in the van to maximise space) means the my bench is only supported at three points, and has meant that the bench is not flat. If I remove the tablesaw, and am able to confirm that I don't need it day-to-day but rather have it as a tool that I can deploy with a days notice (and thus lives in the shed), then it gives me more flexibility for the redesign of my bench that I have in mind.

Alongside this I've taken out my planer thicknesser (Makita 2012NB), which has had even less use, and also hinders my ability to redesign the bench layout.


I think the crux of my question is 'has anyone come up with a nifty way of supporting the Festool track so that you can safely, easily, fairly quickly and quite accurately rip down any piece of fairly flat and narrow material of different thicknesses, from very short pieces up to about 2800mm long?'

For anything foreseen I'll plan to bring the tablesaw, I just want to have the capability of fashioning something out of one of my off-cuts when I'm in a pinch. Ideally, I'd also like this to be a method that a fairly low-skilled apprentice/helper could be taught to do without too much difficulty.

I've been puzzling over this, and it seems to me to be pushing the bounds of what the Festool track is built to do, but I'm aware that I won't have been the only one trying to figure something out.

Thanks all!

 

[Spectric]

but I wasn't sure that the tablesaw was worth it's weight.

Maybe as a site woodworker you would be better off with a set of tressles to lay the sheet goods on and then use a tracksaw with parallel guides and or rail square which would be lighter and more portable.

As to your current problem I am not sure how I would use a tracksaw to rip narrow stock because as you say the track is unsupported unless you have more material of the same thickness to support it, maybe this is a step to far for any tracksaw and the table saw is the right tool.

I have a similar issue with making a domino bench where the domino is fixed and you have a reversable fence but it is how to add height adjustment, raise the domino or lower the workpiece ! This is just the fun of woodworking and these problems keep us thinking and get others involved to help everyone.