medical question

[devonwoody]

Visited my doctor again a month ago complaining that the muscle at the back of my calf was painful, tender to touch compared to the other leg.

He said he didnt know what the trouble could be.

We decided to give a prescription of simvastation (cholestral treatment) a rest for a while to see if leg returned to normal.

No change, muscle still tender and knee joint still weak.

So I did a google at this site.

http://www.diagnose-me.com/?page=pain&g ... QwodRy4JLQ

Anyone any experience of these internet type doctors?
Havent proceeded to work through the page yet but thought I would see if any forum members had been down this path.

 

[tim]

Personally I would see my doctor again. If he doesn't know what it is then ask to be referred to someone who might or at least see another doctor in the surgery.

Hope you feel better soon.

Cheers

Tim

 

[OLD]

As you will know statins can cause muscular problems so he is trying a rest from them but it can take 3 months for the chemistry to return to normal so give it some time. How do i know this, well they don't agree with me and my new blood test is in 3 months to find out what the next move is.

 

[Smudger]

As you will know statins can cause muscular problems so he is trying a rest from them but it can take 3 months for the chemistry to return to normal so give it some time. How do i know this, well they don't agree with me and my new blood test is in 3 months to find out what the next move is.

That is what my doctor did - in fact my arm pains turned out to be carpal tunnel syndrome, but that's another story. The doc is applying Bayesian logic - he has seen a number of cases where statins were the problem so that is the logical thing to try. If he is wrong he tries the next most common cause and so on. He needs your feedback to tell him he was wrong first time!

 

[Digit]

Anyone any experience of these internet type doctors?

Yes DW! Unfortunately/fortunately. I used one to deal with a problem that baffled my GP, it turned out to be the medicine I was taking for a bad back! But checking on the net showed one possible solution was prostate cancer, so I pushed my Doc into a PSA test for me.
A Consultant then gave me a rectal examination and informed that me I had a 'large and aggressive tumour!'
A few minutes on the net soon established that no such diagnosis was possible from a rectal exam, which my GP confirmed.
Eventually it turned out that I did have a small, non aggressive, tumour and the internet docs advise was a great help in selecting which therapy I should choose.
A pure personal experience but one I, and my family, found to be most helpful at a very trying time.

Roy.

 

[StevieB]

DW, please don't even consider using the web to perform self diagnosis of an illness or injury. You might as well read your horoscope for all the good it will do. If you are not happy with the GP's opinion, pay for a second one elsewhere privately. At least you will be certain the person you talk to has a medical degree. Off the top of my head from the symptoms you descibe in your first post I could make at least 5 diagnoses, clearly not all of them will be right. It could be a muscle tear/strain, reumatoid arthritis, claudication, DVT or atherosclerosis among many others. Which one would you like the internet to pick for you, and would you believe it if it told you?

Digit, a prostate tumour CAN be detected by rectal examination, but only if it is large. An assessment of agressiveness cannot be made however. PSA is more reliable but not 100% reliable currently, and other antigen tests are currently under development. A rectal exam will also miss small tumours. 70% of men over 70 have prostate cancer, although in the vast majority of cases tumour growth is so slow or benign that many will die with it rather than of it. Still worth getting checked out if you have any worries however, as it can metastasise (spread) to the spine with nasty consequences. Glad you seem to have your under control!

Steve.

 

[devonwoody]

Thanks for all the advice above, I will get Christmas over and tell the Doc. he will have to find out what is wrong with me.
I have had this trouble with him before.

 

[Digit]

Steve, I didn't say that a prostate tumour could not be diagnosed by a rectal examination, I suggested that the size of the tumour cannot be so judged.
I agree that self diagnosis in the manner you suggest is quite unreasonable, as you pointed out, umpteen different diagnosis will fit the symptons.
The value I placed on the net was confirmation that my tumour size and aggressiveness could not be diagnosed by a rectal exam, and when given the choice of alternative treatments the net helped as, believe it or not the consultant would not advise in case 'owt went wrong and I sued!
The net also stressed that my symptoms were those that could fit about half a dozen different problems and suggested a series of tests that my GP should carry out.
The rest is, as they say, history!
My GP was so certain that I did not have cancer that he apologized to me when the diagnosis was confirmed.

Roy.

 

[RogerS]

A Consultant then gave me a rectal examination and informed that me I had a 'large and aggressive tumour!'

..and hence your username ?? :wink: Glad to hear it was non-malignant.

 

[RogerS]

My GP was so certain that I did not have cancer that he apologized to me when the diagnosis was confirmed.

Roy.

This does raise a topic close to my heart and that is the lack of any sort of screening on the NHS. I believe that in some countries that an annual overall top-to-toe health check is given but I could be mistaken. These screens would go a long way to picking up 'hidden' cancers such as prostate cancer.

 

[mr]

This does raise a topic close to my heart and that is the lack of any sort of screening on the NHS.

My wife and most of the female members have regular screenings on the nhs. I'm not aware of any men being screened on a regular basis though.

Cheers Mike

 

[StevieB]

This does raise a topic close to my heart and that is the lack of any sort of screening on the NHS

Thats a bit unfair Roger, the NHS does have an active screening programme for the more common or agressive types of disease (breast cancer being the prime example, cervical smear tests another). I agree that more could be done, but its a question of economics at the end of the day and there is only so much money to go around. Things are getting better as the realisation is finally dawning that prevention is better than cure (and cheaper too) but for things like heart disease (biggest single killer) and stroke (third biggest killer) so much is lifestyle change over the long term that prevention is not really possible. We could adopt the American system and prescribe a prophylactic statin to everyone over 35, but apart from the cost there is currently no long term study to confirm or refute the benefits of adopting this approach simply because the treatment has not been around for long enough.

You can go to your GP for a regular yearly checkup at no cost, indeed men over 50 are encouraged to do so, but unless you exhibit the symptoms of a condition it is not possible to test for the myriad of things that might be 'hidden'. To take prostate cancer as an example, to perform a PSA test on every male over 50 on a yearly basis is prohibitively expensive. Given the progression speed and the fact that the cancer can be actively managed its more cost effective to treat - particularly as there is no preventative measure that can be adopted. Screening in that case simply means earlier diagnosis.

Unless we all want to pay for private medical care, the NHS is limited in what it can do. We all have opinions on whether certain treatments should be funded (IVF, accupuncture, liver transplant for alcoholics etc etc) but where do you draw the line?

Steve.

 

[Digit]

Steve is quite correct Rog, there is no official screening programme for prostrate cancer, but any GP will order the tests upon request. Some men I know have regular PSA tests just to be sure. Mine was malignant and 3 months down the line I'm still recovering from the surgery.
The main problem is that men won't talk about these things. Last week I was rattling a tin outside my local supermarket for a cancer charity and I met a chap in his 50s who didn't know what a prostate gland was or where it was.
Ignorance kills. Found early prostate cancer can be treated very sucessfully.
If in doubt chaps, get tested.

Roy.

 

[RogerS]

You can go to your GP for a regular yearly checkup at no cost, indeed men over 50 are encouraged to do so,
Steve.

I discussed the very same with my GP when I moved out to Worcestershire. The response I got was not very encouraging ...as in 'No we don't'..which I guess has clouded my views somewhat.

 

[tim]

My GP was so certain that I did not have cancer that he apologized to me when the diagnosis was confirmed.

Roy.

This does raise a topic close to my heart and that is the lack of any sort of screening on the NHS. I believe that in some countries that an annual overall top-to-toe health check is given but I could be mistaken. These screens would go a long way to picking up 'hidden' cancers such as prostate cancer.

The problem is determining what should or shouldn't be included in a 'free' system. You only need to contact your local practise nurse to arrange a check up.

Its worth pointing out that a very significant factor in wasted costs is down to the patient population. For example, my wife runs genetics clinics all over the Midlands. Patients are sent letters confirming their appointments, they are then rung the day before to confirm their attendance and still approximately half fail to turn up. So you have a hospital consultant, a genetic counsellor, plus all the driving/ room costs totally wasted for the length of the appointment. No one can be charged because it is a 'free' service. Another classic is patients turning up for ops having been told 'nil by mouth' for 24 hours to then admit having a cup of tea because they were thirsty. Result, costly op rescheduling and others delayed.

I do think there are considerable endemic faults with the system as well but there is a real danger that as a free system it also appears to have no value and "it doesn't really matter if I don't go, I'll go next week instead...." attitude is applied. I'm not saying in anyway that this approach is being demonstrated by the posters in this thread btw

Cheers

Tim

 

[devonwoody]

Isn't nice to see we have got brains around this forum on many topics.

 

[Digit]

That's one of the problems with modern society Tim, things that come cheap are seen as of little value. There is a good argument for making people pay for non attendance without good reason.
My recent sojourn in hospital was accompanied by a non stop series of cock-ups from admin, (too many chiefs and not enough Indians?) but the medical staff were marvelous, though massively over worked.

Roy.

 

[Danmac]

I am in NHS management (I can hear the boos and hisses) and usually most of us are committed to patient care over all else, practical day to day stuff does cause a certain amount of digression though. Also our management costs are pretty good as a proportion of total spend in comparison with europe & N America and seem to fairly effective.

There is also a 'contract' between the NHS & patients to consider i.e. patients have some responsibility for preventing their need for medical care-lifestyle etc. Obviously depending on socio-economic/cultural this is easier for some more than others and Govt' needs to push the boundaries here as they are attempting to do in education.

Sorry for the rambling but am trying to pick up on several points made in several posts which I read yesterday. Also I am new to the site and a little 'overkeen' to talk to others involved in the 'dark art' of woodworking.

 

[devonwoody]

Another welcome to a forum member of Ukworkshop. Thanks.

 

[Digit]

Maybe so Dan, but what proportion of NHS spending goes on admin?
My recent sojourn in hospital revealed some startling breakdowns in internal communications that amongst other things left the dietician unaware of my existence!
Lack of porters meant I had to walk to the theatre, not that that was a hardship, just an indication of staff shortages, and my son had to search the hospital to find a wheel chair to get me out!
The nursing staff were rushed off their feet in the high dependency unit where I was, again due to personnel shortages.
Having said all that, the dedication, kindness and commitment from all was marvelous!
But the NHS should not be relying on people's dedication to keep going.
But business aside, welcome! If it wasn't for the above dedication I wouldn't be writing this!