MDF kitchen units

[Spectric]

Hi all

As a temporary measure I decided to just use a double highline kitchen unit to sit my new hob on until I get the new kitchen sorted later and it has been a while since getting involved with Mdf kitchen units because their only positive feature is cheapness, much better to use ply and real wood. The Mdf now is really nasty stuff compared to what is was, not as compact as an Oatibix and very close to a wetabix, and the cam locks were horrible as well, I remember the pin was screwed into one face and then inserted into the cam lock which was rotated to pull it together. Now they are using a cheap nasty compression fitting based on the cam lock which pulls a pin that expands to lock the joint. I had to use reinforcing blocks, screws and glue to make it as stable and solid as I could. This is another sign of the times, people must just buy these kitchens based on the finished look and not realise or care that all they have brought is a pile of compacted sawdust covered in a foil to make it look something. I cannot see any use for Mdf in furniture or cabinets, it is just a poormans excuse for something and for not much more effort you could have a wood and ply kitchen built with care and attention to detail which is my objective for the new kitchen.

 

[doctor Bob]

one item is not necessarily a good cross section for MDF.
I think you are wrong.
I have seen plenty of total rubbish wood and ply kitchens.
Not that I'm for or against but MDF has it's place, both in cheap and high end furniture. You have to understand the different standards to get the best out of it, assuming MDF is one type is just wrong.

 

[Spectric]

Hi

I use MDF for workshop bench tops and jigs, it is a dense compact material but with kitchen units they seem to use a less dense crumbly texture that has the looks of weetabix and as much strength. Apart from cost is there any other reason to use Mdf rather than faced birch ply. Also can you recomend a quality faced Mdf that is as good.

 

[doctor Bob]

Yes, it paints way better.
Use exterior grade and it's waterproof, and won't blow like birch ply will.
Takes a profile much better.
No need to edge it.
Much less movement.

Was it an Ikea unit, they use lightweight stuff

 

[Cabinetman]

Hi Spectric, my apologies if I’m wrong, but are you mixing up very ordinary chipboard carcasses with MDF, from your description of Weetabix it sounds like a lot like chipboard. For a cheap kitchen that isn’t going to get wet, as long as they use the right fittings it does the job for 20 +years. Ian

 

[Doug B]

Apart from cost is there any other reason to use Mdf rather than faced birch ply.

try getting decent Birch ply the last lot I got moved everywhere, very disappointed, as Bobby says MDF has many benefits over todays plywood.

 

[Spectric]

from your description of Weetabix it sounds like a lot like chipboard.

Yes, I must have had a brain dead moment, you get these as you age. I had completely forgotten about chipboard until cabinet man brought it up and must have thought that it was obsolete as it is horrible stuff and I confused it with MDF.

Should have clicked because I use MDF for jigs and worktops in the workshop and when worked produces fine dust and does not look look a weetabix.

I must have been lucky as the last sheets of 18mm birch ply I brought were good except being £96 a sheet. I think MDF does paint well but gives a glass finish like autobody painting that lacks soul. With wood and ply you get that wood look. I suppose it depends what the end objective is, if you want that ultra modern look with high gloss finish and spaceship looks then it is great but I personally prefer that older lived in look, for example:

 

[HOJ]

£96 a sheet

Not saying I get a good price on 18mm Birch ply, as I don't buy that much, but I pay about half of that price!

 

[doctor Bob]

I think MDF does paint well but gives a glass finish like autobody painting that lacks soul. With wood and ply you get that wood look.

I'll disagree again, I could show you 2 doors, one MDF and one wood, you wouldn't know the difference.

 

[Spectric]

Bob whats your secret, how do you get a wood grain finish on MDF, that sounds like some clever painting process. I must say that your kitchens all look really good and although may not always be in a style I like I can see they are well made. I also agree that having skirting boards rather than setback kickpanels does like nicer. Have you done any videos on cabinet making, materials and jointing methods, they could become a hit. I had never heard of Eggerboard until I looked at some of your older post.

 

[Doug71]

I don't know if it's just me but I don't like to see wood grain through paint. I find it funny that things like composite doors or fake wood kitchen units show fake grain but a well made and well painted real wood item will show no grain.

For the above reason I am not keen on acrylic paints and how they raise the grain, I think it just looks cheap.

I have no problem with MDF, used in the right place it is a great product.

 

[doctor Bob]

Bob whats your secret, how do you get a wood grain finish on MDF, that sounds like some clever painting process. I must say that your kitchens all look really good and although may not always be in a style I like I can see they are well made. I also agree that having skirting boards rather than setback kickpanels does like nicer. Have you done any videos on cabinet making, materials and jointing methods, they could become a hit. I had never heard of Eggerboard until I looked at some of your older post.

That's twisting my words slightly, I can make a door out of poplar and a door out of MDF, paint them and you would know no difference.
If you want grain we use Ash.

No videos as to be honest they are a waste of time and energy, time is money and it's a business not a hobby .
I recommend anyone wanting to do it for a living works in a professional workshop for a few years, the real skill is being able to do stuff quickly. I see people showing their work and discussing time taken and methods and unfortunately quite often "cringe" (for want of a better word) at the slowness and methods, mainly due to being self taught and not knowing any better. Which is fine as a hobby but often the reason a business will fail.

I'm also governed by trends, the image you posted wouldn't sell these days, I have made one kitchen in that style in the last 10 years.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

MDF/chipboard are popular kitchen base materials for good reasons:

• MDF is a fraction of the price of birch ply or solid wood
• Covering MDF with foil is far less demanding than painting - one machine, change the roll for a different colour. Paint needs paint guns, dust extraction, cleaning after each colour change etc
• A singe unit may have limited strength. A run of units fixed to each other and the wall are entirely adequate for kitchen use.
• Foil covered MDF lasts ~20 years unless grossly abused. Cabinets are usually OK. Doors can be changed easily for a refresh.

Upmarket real wood or quality plywood could last far longer. However the surface finish is likely to degrade even though the structure is sound.
Whilst some buyers of quality kitchens may value longevity, I suspect that most will be replaced at 15-25 year intervals anyway as needs change, house owners move on, kitchen fashion changes, other appliances fail etc.

 

[Spectric]

Hi all

It is so nice when woodworking can be a hobby/interest and not be governed by business and what other people want because then in many cases to be profitable you need to knock stuff out quick and people want lower cost at the expense of quality because they know they will be either moving in the next ten years or will want a new style in their home. At the moment the fashion seems to be for clinical looking kitchens where every inch of wall space is utilised but everything goes in circles and people seem to just follow trends without doing there own thing. At least there are still people making bespoke handmade furniture and such using skills rather than machines but unfortunately at a cost. The Euro 32 system was the start of CNC production but how long before we start using printing machines to make new doors and drawers? Doug, fake grain on composite doors does look very tacky, makes it look more plastic.

 

[Spectric]

Hi all

When using plastic coated MDF how are people joining it? I Know that there are the camlocks, both the MFI original and the later compresion/expansion version and now this click system but has the Lamello become the option people use when not making flat pack or are there better methods of dealing with this stuff?

 

[doctor Bob]

I'm sorry Spectric but you seem to be posting stuff you think rather than facts and knowledge. Your knowledge / terminology of MFC / MDF / Plastics is confusing to say the least.

 

[Max Power]

Also Spectric, some very high end kitchens are made in mfc. It's an ideal material for kitchen carcases which are basic boxes not chippendale reproductions at the end of the day. I saw a kitchen the other day that I sold about 18 years ago and it still looked like new, apart from being a bit dated