Making your own tools

[CHJ]

For those of us without a clue, can you explain how a proper turning tool is constructed, if not with a tang?
...

The bulk of turning tools intended for heavy turning loads are made from round solid stock and the full diameter/cross section stock is inserted or clamped in the supporting handle. (even these have been known to bend under catch conditions)

Even modern HSS turning tools made with a tang fitting such as scrapers and parting tools should be used with caution and in the working orientation that they were intended to be used in, I.E scrapers in trailing mode so there is no risk of a catch, and skew chisels and spindle roughing gouges (the broken item) should only be used for spindles where end grain or shock loads are unlikely to be encountered.

 

[Mark Hancock]

For those of us without a clue, can you explain how a proper turning tool is constructed, if not with a tang?
Genuinely interested, although I've never turned anything...

Apart from gouges most have a tang but there are exceptions like Carter & Son Tools:

http://carterandsontoolworks.com

Surely all tools have a tang unless they are intended to used unhandled like Jason Breach's box tools. The tang is the section that goes in the handle be it round bar as in spindle and bowl gouges or the reduced tang as in forged tools like the spindle roughing gouge or scraper.

 

[Mark Hancock]

For those of us without a clue, can you explain how a proper turning tool is constructed, if not with a tang?
...

The bulk of turning tools intended for heavy turning loads are made from round solid stock and the full diameter/cross section stock is inserted or clamped in the supporting handle. (even these have been known to bend under catch conditions)

Even modern HSS turning tools made with a tang fitting such as scrapers and parting tools should be used with caution and in the working orientation that they were intended to be used in, I.E scrapers in trailing mode so there is no risk of a catch, and skew chisels and spindle roughing gouges (the broken item) should only be used for spindles where end grain or shock loads are unlikely to be encountered.

Chas
I would question a scraper in trailing mode having no risk of a catch. If used traditional flat on the tool rest with a trailing cutting edge there is still the risk of a catch if used too aggressively. However if used in shearing mode I've never known one catch.

 

[woodpig]

Surely all tools have a tang unless they are intended to used unhandled like Jason Breach's box tools. The tang is the section that goes in the handle be it round bar as in spindle and bowl gouges or the reduced tang as in forged tools like the spindle roughing gouge or scraper.

Yes of course. Except a spindle or bowl gouge doesn't have a separate tang per se, it's just the end of the shaft that goes in the handle. :roll:

Tang: "a projecting shank, prong, fang, or tongue (as on a knife, file, or sword) to connect with the handle"

 

[CHJ]

Chas
I would question a scraper in trailing mode having no risk of a catch. If used traditional flat on the tool rest with a trailing cutting edge there is still the risk of a catch if used too aggressively. However if used in shearing mode I've never known one catch.

Hi Mark,

Perhaps it was too blasé a statement in the context of safe tool usage but surely used correctly, below centre on external work and above centre on internal work a 'flat presented' scraper will automatically have a tendency to dump the load forces should too aggressive a cut be attempted, it certainly should not dig in further in a self sustaining and very rapid destructive plunge into the work piece, which is what I always consider a catch.

 

[John Brown]

Thanks.

 

[selectortone]

It's very rewarding making your own tools so if you have easy access to suitable stock give it a try, just keep safe.

It is indeed rewarding to turn a bowl or box with tools you've made yourself. I've made several using bits of scrap wood for handles, old bits of central heating pipe for ferrules and HSS blanks I've bought from UK suppliers on ebay.

I wouldn't want to make anything too heavy-duty for safety reasons expressed in this thread, but for tools for refining the insides of boxes etc, that aren't going to take too much stress, it's not that difficult. The last time I did any metalwork was in school in the 60s but I've found it quite easy, with a bit of patience, to shape the tools on my grinder. They keep an edge as well as any of my store-bought tools.

Steel bar stock in small lengths is very cheap nowadays. The beauty of it is you can make exactly the tool you want.

Here are a couple of pics:

 

[Sawdust=manglitter]

It's very rewarding making your own tools so if you have easy access to suitable stock give it a try, just keep safe.

It is indeed rewarding to turn a bowl or box with tools you've made yourself. I've made several using bits of scrap wood for handles, old bits of central heating pipe for ferrules and HSS blanks I've bought from UK suppliers on ebay.

I wouldn't want to make anything too heavy-duty for safety reasons expressed in this thread, but for tools for refining the insides of boxes etc, that aren't going to take too much stress, it's not that difficult. The last time I did any metalwork was in school in the 60s but I've found it quite easy, with a bit of patience, to shape the tools on my grinder. They keep an edge as well as any of my store-bought tools.

Steel bar stock in small lengths is very cheap nowadays. The beauty of it is you can make exactly the tool you want.

Here are a couple of pics:

Thank you selectortone. Your tools look great by the way! Would you mind pointing me in the direction of those UK suppliers of HSS on ebay please?

And i take note of the H&S concerns that everyone's shown, i dont intend on making/using anything dodgy or dangerous. Shear scrapers/finishing tools would be the extent of what i need, so nothing thats likely to catch. I am always very careful and safety concious.

 

[Robbo3]

No need to go overboard on the idea of making your own tools. I can't remember where I got these from but I believe one is a part of the Hamlet big Brother hollowing system & was obtained from Axminster. They are 19"/482mm long, so can be used unhandled & at 5/8"/16mm are compatible with most collet handles or of course you could make your own.

The cutter is a Siragas #5
- http://www.toolpost.co.uk/pages/Turning ... andle.html

The idea came from Robbie The Woodturner
- https://www.youtube.com/user/Robbiethewoodturner/videos

Other considerations for TCT tools are that they often have square shafts which aids stability & if they seat the cutter at an angle, can be less aggressive than those with horizontal cutters & therefore probably easier to use.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

Would you trust that this would actually be HSS steel, coming from Hong Kong? I very much doubt it would be the quality/grade of HSS that you'd get made in the UK, but its pretty cheap if it's as described!

Humm
While buying over the Internet (not just from Hong Kong) can be hit or miss why would it not be HSS?
Also why would it automatically not be the quality/grade of HSS that you'd get made in the UK?

Talking about getting HSS from Ashley Iles. I didn't see anything that said that the steel that they use is UK made, did you? That the tools are UK made yes, but the steel?

Sure buying from a UK source you have more recourse if the product isn't as specified, but a lot of products are just resold Chinese items anyway.

I have bought quite a few end mills from Hong Kong to use as router bits, also TCT tipped masonry drills and the quality has been excellent and the prices very good.

 

[woodpig]

Would you trust that this would actually be HSS steel, coming from Hong Kong? I very much doubt it would be the quality/grade of HSS that you'd get made in the UK, but its pretty cheap if it's as described!

Humm
While buying over the Internet (not just from Hong Kong) can be hit or miss why would it not be HSS?
Also why would it automatically not be the quality/grade of HSS that you'd get made in the UK?

Talking about getting HSS from Ashley Iles. I didn't see anything that said that the steel that they use is UK made, did you? That the tools are UK made yes, but the steel?

Sure buying from a UK source you have more recourse if the product isn't as specified, but a lot of products are just resold Chinese items anyway.

I have bought quite a few end mills from Hong Kong to use as router bits, also TCT tipped masonry drills and the quality has been excellent and the prices very good.

All steel is not equal:

http://woodturninglearn.net/articles/ToolSteel.pdf

 

[Sawdust=manglitter]

Would you trust that this would actually be HSS steel, coming from Hong Kong? I very much doubt it would be the quality/grade of HSS that you'd get made in the UK, but its pretty cheap if it's as described!

Humm
While buying over the Internet (not just from Hong Kong) can be hit or miss why would it not be HSS?
Also why would it automatically not be the quality/grade of HSS that you'd get made in the UK?

Talking about getting HSS from Ashley Iles. I didn't see anything that said that the steel that they use is UK made, did you? That the tools are UK made yes, but the steel?

Sure buying from a UK source you have more recourse if the product isn't as specified, but a lot of products are just resold Chinese items anyway.

I have bought quite a few end mills from Hong Kong to use as router bits, also TCT tipped masonry drills and the quality has been excellent and the prices very good.

It's not that I automatically assumed that the quality/grade was crap, it's just that it seems to be very cheap for what I've seen, and usually you get what you pay for. However I want to do this to save myself money as well as for the satisfaction of making it myself.

Would you trust that this would actually be HSS steel, coming from Hong Kong? I very much doubt it would be the quality/grade of HSS that you'd get made in the UK, but its pretty cheap if it's as described!

Humm
While buying over the Internet (not just from Hong Kong) can be hit or miss why would it not be HSS?
Also why would it automatically not be the quality/grade of HSS that you'd get made in the UK?

Talking about getting HSS from Ashley Iles. I didn't see anything that said that the steel that they use is UK made, did you? That the tools are UK made yes, but the steel?

Sure buying from a UK source you have more recourse if the product isn't as specified, but a lot of products are just resold Chinese items anyway.

I have bought quite a few end mills from Hong Kong to use as router bits, also TCT tipped masonry drills and the quality has been excellent and the prices very good.

All steel is not equal:

http://woodturninglearn.net/articles/ToolSteel.pdf

Thanks woodpig, that's what I was under the impression of too when considering whether to buy cheap hss from HK on eBay.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

Thanks for the article.
It seems that one of the main conclusions was that, while the steels were different, a major factor in the quality of the tool was not so much in the steel itself but more likely to be in the tempering stage, as incorrect temperature control would produce a poorly performing tool.

The experts I spoke to believe that the lower-than-normal levels of hard-ness in some of the samples in the test may have been due to errors in the heat-treating process rather than a conscious choice to make a softer tool. The heat treating of HSS is a most critical part of the toolmaking process—one that must be done precisely and with great care.

 

[selectortone]

Thank you selectortone. Your tools look great by the way! Would you mind pointing me in the direction of those UK suppliers of HSS on ebay please?

Thanks. I have bought from several ebay suppliers; just do a search for "HSS Tool Steel". I think one of them was from Hong Kong - no discernible difference in quality, but then I'm no expert. Whatever, the tools do the job well enough for me. Of course delivery from the Far East is longer than buying from the UK (2-3 weeks usually), factor that into the equation if you're in a hurry.

 

[JimB]

I have bought a few odds and ends through China via ebay over the years and have always been satisfied.

 

[Sawdust=manglitter]

Thanks Jim. They were cheap enough for a punt so I have now ordered a couple of blanks from ebay, so I now have the long wait for delivery from china.

 

[JimB]

Thanks Jim. They were cheap enough for a punt so I have now ordered a couple of blanks from ebay, so I now have the long wait for delivery from china.

A laugh really - high speed steel on a slow boat from China. Must be a song there.

 

[woodpig]

I made this for a mate a couple of weeks ago as he wanted to try carbide. I cut the pocket deep enough to take both the flat (pictured) and the deeper, profiled inserts. The hex shaft allows both cutters to be used at a suitable angle.

 

[Stiggy]

WOW!

Nice job there matey - very professional job!

 

[katellwood]

Hi Woodpig I really like that,

If I may ask, where do you source the torx set screws

TIA