Making my own alcove cabinets

[lukeredpath]

Hello, complete and utter newbie here!

I want some nice alcove cabinets in our new home and because of budget constraints, I've decided to jump in the deep and and try and make my own.

I've spent a lot of time researching and these forums have been invaluable. I'm starting to get a picture in my head of how to construct these things and I know what I want the end result to look like, but there's still some things I'm not to sure about.

Firstly, here's some pictures of the sort of style I'm trying to achieve - simple but traditional, nothing too modern looking:

Many of the photos on that page have the look I'm going for. Inset doors with the top of the doors coming right up to the underside of the worktop. Small skirting along the bottom. The units will protrude from the alcoves by a small amount and there will be a side panel that returns to the chimney breast.

Our alcoves are approx. 850mm wide and the units will be between 450-480mm deep. I'm not yet sure what the best height will be. There's a small return on the window board of our bay window into one of the alcoves that I might need to work around so the units will have to be slightly higher or lower, but probably in the 600-700mm height range.

I realise inset doors will be more of a challenge than overlay doors but I just think they look much better.

I've tried to do some designs in Sketchup. Here's what I've got so far, showing the finished result in situ:

Just the carcass:

With the face frame in place:

With doors and worktop:

So I guess the first question, is this design reasonable? Have I figured this thing out correctly?

The plan was to construct everything out of 18mm MR MDF except the worktop which would be thicker and should the face frame be made out of something better than MDF? Should I consider making the worktop out of something else too? I intended to use glue and screws to join the pieces, possibly using pocket hole joins?

Some other questions:

* Is the way I've done the face frame, without the top piece and with the bottom flush with the bottom of the carcass (for ease of access to equipment) going to work?
* Do I need some kind of door stop at the bottom too?
* Would I be better off making the bottom flush with the sides of the carcass and using adjustable feet instead to make it easier to adjust for uneven floors?
* The above design shows a cut-out of one side for access to power/phone point. There will be a similar cutout on the other side too. Will this compromise the structure too much?
* Would I get away with just using a piece of hardboard for the back panel? If so, how thick?
* The sides of the face frame are flush with the carcass sides, no overlap - what would be the best hinges to use for the inset doors? I would like soft close, I'm assuming the right type of Blum hinge should do the trick?
* Any general tips on scribing the face frame to the wall/chimney breast?
* For finishing, I assume I can just apply MDF preparation tape to exposed, visible edges and then prime and paint. What's a decent MDF primer for hand painting? Any tips for getting a good finish?

Thanks!

 

[dexter]

If you go to the search page on this site and search alcove unit with the author being bradnaylor you will find plenty of help and pictures of what you are looking for.
Bradnaylor, (Duncan) has not been active on this site for a couple of years but alcove units were a speciality of his.
Good luck,

Dex

 

[lukeredpath]

If you go to the search page on this site and search alcove unit with the author being bradnaylor you will find plenty of help and pictures of what you are looking for.
Bradnaylor, (Duncan) has not been active on this site for a couple of years but alcove units were a speciality of his.
Good luck,

Dex

Hi Dex

Thanks, but I have already read pretty much every post on here regarding alcove units already, including Bradnaylor's. They were very helpful in getting me to the stage I'm already at but it has still left me with the above questions.

 

[petermillard]

Hello, complete and utter newbie here!

I want some nice alcove cabinets in our new home.... <snip>

So I guess the first question, is this design reasonable? Have I figured this thing out correctly?

Welcome. Yes, looks pretty good. I'd add another top rail at the rear of the carcass, personally - gives you something to fix the top to - like this:-

The plan was to construct everything out of 18mm MR MDF except the worktop which would be thicker and should the face frame be made out of something better than MDF? Should I consider making the worktop out of something else too? I intended to use glue and screws to join the pieces, possibly using pocket hole joins?

I'd suggest Moisture Resistant (MR) MDF - it's a better quality board for not much more money. And yes, MR MDF is ideal for this application. These can look nice with a wooden (i.e. 'real tree wood') top, but this will up the cost and fiddliness if you're a relative novice, IMHO. And yes, screw/glue works well, pocket-holes if they need to be concealed.

Is the way I've done the face frame, without the top piece and with the bottom flush with the bottom of the carcass (for ease of access to equipment) going to work?

If you're happy with how it looks then yes, it should be fine.

Do I need some kind of door stop at the bottom too?

Usually a top stop works fine.

Would I be better off making the bottom flush with the sides of the carcass and using adjustable feet instead to make it easier to adjust for uneven floors?

I make a carcass that sits on a separate plinth; you just level up the plinth, than attach the carcass to it. I've used adjustable feet but found they were a bit fiddly, personally - and the carcass needed much more stabilising.

The above design shows a cut-out of one side for access to power/phone point. There will be a similar cutout on the other side too. Will this compromise the structure too much?

Should be fine - it's not like it'll be moved around after it's fitted

Would I get away with just using a piece of hardboard for the back panel? If so, how thick?

I use a 6mm MRMDF back on all my carcasses; never needed anything heavier, never had any problems.

The sides of the face frame are flush with the carcass sides, no overlap - what would be the best hinges to use for the inset doors? I would like soft close, I'm assuming the right type of Blum hinge should do the trick?

You'll need cranked (inset) hinges for this - something like these.

Any general tips on scribing the face frame to the wall/chimney breast?

I cut them quite generously, scribe them, clamp them in place against the wall then mark the cutline against the edge of the carcass and cut it to fit.

For finishing, I assume I can just apply MDF preparation tape to exposed, visible edges and then prime and paint. What's a decent MDF primer for hand painting? Any tips for getting a good finish?
Thanks!

I do a lot of painted MDF and the best finish I've found is a couple of coats of water-based acrylic primer/undercoat rubbed down (especially the edges) followed by a few coats of water-based acrylic eggshell. Some folks swear by applying thinned-down PVA to the edges, some use Zinsser BIN (shellac-based primer/sealer) but personally I've never had a issue with regular primer and eggshell, provided you're using a decent MR MDF board.

If it's any help, this old thread of mine, whilst about workflow, covered my process quite thoroughly.

HTH Pete.

 

[lukeredpath]

Pete, thanks, that's really helpful. I'll re-read your thread. I think you answered most of my questions but I do have some more, sorry!

So here's my revised design with your suggestions incorporated - an extra top rail and shortened the bottom so it can sit on a separate plinth.

Funnily enough I was just looking at that exact hinge from that exact website. Because the way the doors are laid out, I assume I just treat the edges of the face frame stiles as if they were part of the carcass when measuring to fit the hinges, is that right? Here's what they look like without the face frame:

I want to make sure my plan for the doors will work. The doors overlay the front of the carcass at the top so I'm assuming this will work to act as a stop?

I've allowed for 2mm gap around each door - is that sufficient?

What's the best tool for cutting the scribed pieces - a jigsaw?

Finally, we had planned to have 2 or 3 floating shelves fitted in the alcove above the unit as shown in the picture in my first post. I can order these to measure with fixings from ShelfBar but they are quite expensive at about £60 each. How could I make these myself? Cutting and scribing the shelf to size I get, but what about concealed fixing?

 

[lukeredpath]

I just realised I left out quite an important component of my cabinets - adjustable internal shelves.

I assume the best way to make this is to drill holes using some kind of jig and by some of these:

http://www.trade-hinges.co.uk/shelf-peg ... -520-p.asp

Is there an easy way of making the groove in the shelves for them to sit on and would 18mm MDF be sufficient for a 774mm x 300mm shelf without sagging? It will have some AV equipment but nothing too heavy (DVD player, Xbox etc.).

Also thinking about ventilation for the cabinet that will have the AV equipment in - I'm thinking the best option would be to have a rebate cut along the backs of the internal shelves and then in the worktop, I could have a recessed ventilation grille - the narrowest I can get for aesthetic reasons - recessed into the back of the worktop, something like this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/KITCHEN-WORKTOP ... B00HRX7164

I'm guessing the only way I'm going to get a flush fit would be with a router, i.e. cut the internal hole using a jigsaw and then route around the edge for the lipped part of the vent to sit in? I might have to find somebody with a router to borrow if that's the case

 

[trexy]

You don't need to bother with inset hinges and face frames etc to get this look. Just build the carcase as 50mm short on the left side and 10mm or so on the right side. Then use the L-shape filler piece described by Jason B and others to pull the left hand filler up flush with the doors and build out the right side side to 50mm with a similar L shape filler piece to overlay the chimney breast. Then just template the counter to also come flush with doors. It gives an inset look with less aggro. Well thats how I do them.

Paint wise. Don't bother with priming rubbing down the edges. Just edgeband the edges that will be seen in paint grade edging. Its way less hassle.

Not fond of these wrap around skirtings. Id just build a 60mm kick frame as Pete says just level it up and the cabinet will sit on it level. Personally I always prefer the kickframe to be inset a little. Looks better in my opinion.

T

 

[trexy]

For floating shelves above. No need to mess about with brackets or rebar. Not in an alcove. 32mm Batten all round, including a front piece fixed into the 2 side pieces to form a crude torsion box. Then scribe and fix 12mm to top and bottom with a front covering piece to hide the sandwich. Quick, easy and strong if done correctly.

t

 

[petermillard]

Pete, thanks, that's really helpful... Because the way the doors are laid out, I assume I just treat the edges of the face frame stiles as if they were part of the carcass when measuring to fit the hinges, is that right?

Yep. I use a simple hinge template like this one for marking out.

I want to make sure my plan for the doors will work. The doors overlay the front of the carcass at the top so I'm assuming this will work to act as a stop?

Yes

I've allowed for 2mm gap around each door - is that sufficient?

Yes - it's what I work to.

What's the best tool for cutting the scribed pieces - a jigsaw?

I usually do this by hand with a Japanese pull-saw as everything I tend to fit is pre-painted, but I've used a jigsaw before with decent results. Also a belt sander, hand plane etc..

Finally, we had planned to have 2 or 3 floating shelves fitted in the alcove above the unit as shown in the picture in my first post. I can order these to measure with fixings from ShelfBar but they are quite expensive at about £60 each. How could I make these myself? Cutting and scribing the shelf to size I get, but what about concealed fixing?

That's actually a pretty good price. For floating shelves as Trexy says above, I usually use a softwood batten fixed to three sides of the alcove and the leading edge screwed into the end-grain of the two side pieces. I fit an MDF 'skin' to this (various thicknesses, but typically 6-12mm - make a template) with glue/pins on the three fixed sides, and glued/clamped on the leading edge. Finally, apply a 6mm MDF fascia to the leading edge *exactly* the same thickness as the finished shelf. Sand and paint.

I just realised I left out quite an important component of my cabinets - adjustable internal shelves.
I assume the best way to make this is to drill holes using some kind of jig and by some of these...

I prefer this type but yes, that's the kind of thing. I've gone all-out on a Festool LR32 kit, but I used one of these jigs for years without any problems - you'll need to add a Trend Snappy 5mm hinge bit as the Rutlands jig comes with a 6mm bit.

Is there an easy way of making the groove in the shelves for them to sit on and would 18mm MDF be sufficient for a 774mm x 300mm shelf without sagging? It will have some AV equipment but nothing too heavy (DVD player, Xbox etc.).

The clear shelf supports and the ones you linked to above don't generally need grooves. And yes, that kind of span is getting a bit wide for 18mm. You can put a lip on it, make them thicker (22mm, or 25mm), or make them in the same style as the floating shelves above??

Also thinking about ventilation for the cabinet that will have the AV equipment in - I'm thinking the best option would be to have a rebate cut along the backs of the internal shelves and then in the worktop, I could have a recessed ventilation grille - the narrowest I can get for aesthetic reasons - recessed into the back of the worktop, something like this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/KITCHEN-WORKTOP ... B00HRX7164

I'm guessing the only way I'm going to get a flush fit would be with a router, i.e. cut the internal hole using a jigsaw and then route around the edge for the lipped part of the vent to sit in? I might have to find somebody with a router to borrow if that's the case

I'd either consider some kind of active active airflow (I built a wall-hung media centre that had PC cooling fans in it) or think about having Shaker-style doors with punched panels, like these. But yes, if you wanted that type of grille set into the plinth, you'd need a router to make the rebate.

HTH Pete

edited for spelling

 

[Trevsf1]

I would add a vertical support between the two doors in order to support weight above and avoid bowing the top.

 

[paulrockliffe]

Does the cabinet itself add much? I'm doing something pretty similar shortly and wasn't planning to build a cabinet.

I'm putting 5 shelves each side of the chimney breast as described above, though I'm using 2" x 1.5" lengths of ash for the shelf fronts and veneered MDF for the shelf sandwich. I will miss out a shelf on one side to leave space for the TV to be wall-mounted between shelves and then make a front cover to go from the bottom of the bottom shelf down to the floor.

The bottom shelves will be quite low, maybe 50cm off the floor, so I'm planning to mount the fronts to deep drawer boxes and have the whole thing pull out as a drawer, but if I was going higher with a shelf as you describe I'd just scribe the shelf to the space, or put it on shelf rails if I wanted to be able to adjust the height.

Just seems unnecessary to build a cabinet when you've already got a strong structure on three sides, but I've no idea what the conventional way of doing these things is.

 

[siggy_7]

For working out the necessary support to a shelf, this is a really useful tool:

http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator.htm

 

[lukeredpath]

I thought I'd come back here and update my post as I finally got around to making these. It took some time but I'm really happy with the results so thanks for all your help and advice. If I get a chance I might post a more detailed account of how I built them as I took plenty of photos. They aren't 100% perfect hr considering I've never built something like this before I'm pretty pleased with how they turned out. Here's a few photos...

 

[paulrockliffe]

Yeah, they look good!

 

[whiskywill]

Yeah, they look good!

Do they? I can't see any pictures.

 

[lukeredpath]

Yeah, they look good!

Do they? I can't see any pictures.

Something odd with Dropbox, try these links:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/a2u0tec8zrgy7 ... 6.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ubgdh08uxoz0f ... 2.jpg?dl=0

 

[Adam9453]

They look very smart to me and I think anyone would be pleased to have them in their house.

It never fails to amaze me that we all fixate on our errors rather than just think, that turned out nice.

Not being critical but just a different perspective would be that I would have changed it so the bottom plinth of the cabinets was the same height as the skirting and run the skirting around the front of the cupboards as well. I think it just makes them look more built in and IMO a bit more aesthetically pleasing.

Keep up the good work, I look forward to seeing your next project if this is your first attempt 8)

 

[Wizard9999]

Yeah, they look good!

Do they? I can't see any pictures.

+1. Me neither.

Edit: sorry, missed second page of thread. They do indeed look very nice and as somebody who has just started this woodworking lark I would be delighted with them.

Terry.

 

[petermillard]

Nice job, very tidy.