Lyndhurst Woodworking

[Noel]

Ciscoe
One more word of warning - a friend went down a similar path importing machines. He received damaged items in every shipment from the shipping - neither supplier or courier will accept blame, and you end up having to canibalise one machine out of a batch. Say goodnight to any hope of profit :lol:
So well worth keeping this in mind.
Philly

Ciscoe,
A good example of how not to do things. Assuming the original supplier is ok employing the services of a good forwarding agent will ensure that adequate marine cover and reputable shipping companies are used. This can make importing and exporting totally painless. I personally prefer arranging shipping through my own agent rather than letting the supplier do this. Sometimes this is marginally more expensive but retaining control over such matters is well worth it.
PM me if you need further info.

 

[Boz62]

I agree on the Freight Forwarding Agent aspect. A company I used to work for used one. Even as a medium sized PLC, it was well worth it, it let us get on with the stuff we were good at, and left all aspects of shipping in the hands of experts. The agent collected from our factory or delivered to our factory, anything beyond the factory door was their problem

Boz

 

[Bluekingfisher]

are you talking about this:

:?:

Forgetting price, I think this is a good quality saw. I think it's current price is way over the top.

Yes, that's the one I was meaning, you hit the nail on the head...price. When these saws came out and up until recently they were £450. Thats about right for what they are. they are now about £700.. I think they look cheap and tinny, poor fence, very cheap starter switch. I don't think you could compare it to the Deft or similar machines, particularly as they are asking the same money for them :|

 

[wizer]

Yeh I'll concede on the switch, it's the same on my TS200 and I hate it. But I found the fence to be rock solid and smooth running on the couple of units I'v played with.

Tho you've helped me make a decision. I don't think I'd be happy with that saw based on price alone. I think I'm going to continue scanning eBay for the right old iron saw at the right price.

 

[Mike.C]

are you talking about this:

:?:

Forgetting price, I think this is a good quality saw. I think it's current price is way over the top.

Yes, that's the one I was meaning, you hit the nail on the head...price. When these saws came out and up until recently they were £450. Thats about right for what they are. they are now about £700.. I think they look cheap and tinny, poor fence, very cheap starter switch. I don't think you could compare it to the Deft or similar machines, particularly as they are asking the same money for them :|

You have obviously never used the saw. I have the 12" model and it is an excellent saw. As for the fence, you are talking out of your hat, because I have found it to be one of the best rock solid fence's on the market, and that is straight out of the box.
This saw comes under many names, SIP, Itech, Fox and Axminster being just a few, and most forum members (of who there are many) who own them have found them to be an excellent saw.

Compare it to the Deft? Not having used one I have no idea, and as they are as rare as rocking horse s--t it does not look like this will change at any time soon.

One question I have to ask. If these Defts (including the clones) are so good why are so few companies importing them?

Cheers

Mike

 

[Bluekingfisher]

If perhaps you had read the earlier post from wizer (I believe) probably down to cost and a bigger mark up for the importer.

As far as talking out of my hat goes I have used one, hence my opinion of them. You have not as you mentioned never used or perhaps even seen the Deft/Laguana/Grizzly so maybe it's your hat that's doing the talking.

If you are happy with your SIP that's great Mike, my comments were in reference to the poor quality we have on offer and that too has been identified by contribitors on this forum and else where.

 

[ciscoeuk]

One question I have to ask. If these Defts (including the clones) are so good why are so few companies importing them?

Cheers

Mike

to answer that part of the statement i can tell after doing some research, europe prefers to be suppled the sliding panel saws, but a lot of people just don't have room in the shop to fit the huge saws and opt for usa canada the DEFT style saws,

personally i prefer the deft style becuse it more versitile, and you can add on at your own pace and do a lot more that just cut sheet goods, with the sliding tables saw you are restricted to what you can do and the slide gets in the way

hope that answer a that point

 

[wizer]

but a lot of people just don't have room in the shop to fit the huge saws and opt for usa canada the DEFT style saws,

What people? Hobbiests? What is the size of that market?

 

[Bluekingfisher]

I am often perplexed as to whom the suppliers of woodworking machinery are actually aiming their products at :?

If you operate a woodworking business or need a professional saw with the large sliding carriage then, no problems, no doubt you will have the space to accommodate such large machines. Yet, most woodworkers whether hobbiests or semi pro work from small units, such as a single car garage (not even big enough for that now) or a shed at the bottom of the garden. With this in mind, why and all of a sudden have the importers gone for the marketing and selling of sliding carriage saws? :? even the small contractor size saws such as the Kity take up a large foot print. We in the UK are offered either the cheap and nasty bench top saws with their brush motors or the larger cabinet saws (now with carriage) and not much else in between. Like ciscoe mentioned the market is lead by the demand from Europe so we have to suffer. Gone are the days where quality machines are manufactured in Britain, the only way we will have acess to a wider range of products is if we make enough noise about it, but we won't, we appear just to be grateful for what we can get. ](*,)

The Yanks on the other hand were continually bleating about the the increasing numbers of the machines made available to them being produced in China. Now Delta and Sawstop, to name a couple, produce their machines within their shores.

Personally I am not prepared to accept mediocrity, I, like most work hard for my wedge and don't mind spending it as long as I believe I'm getting value for money. Call me old fashioned

 

[OPJ]

We in the UK are offered either the cheap and nasty bench top saws with their brush motors or the larger cabinet saws (now with carriage) and not much else in between.

You're quite right. Except, I believe this is where the Record Power TS200 comes in. It has a sliding beam and optional right-hand extension table but, no sliding carriage/table or outrigger. As far as I'm aware, there's not another saw quite like this one available to us in the UK (excluding the Jet JTS-600, with its sliding carriage).

The Yanks on the other hand were continually bleating about the the increasing numbers of the machines made available to them being produced in China. Now Delta and Sawstop, to name a couple, produce their machines within their shores.

What really p****s me off is the range of affordable planers they have access at more than 6in. wide and also the thicknessers, which appear to have induction motors, unlike most of the brush-motored 'site tools' that we get. I've not come across anything cheaper than the Jet JPM-13 CSX for a stand-alone thicknesser with induction motor. :x

 

[Bluekingfisher]

OPJ - Yes we do suffer with regards to quality affordable machines here. The only stand alone planer I know of is the Jet (forget model) with it's 8" capacity. If you need anymore than that you will be looking at a combo machine.

I have been to the states many times either on hols or via work, needless to say I have spent countless hours boring the pants off the salesmen in the likes of Rockler or woodcraft stores. The mass array of choice is staggering. When I tell them our predicament they raise an eye brow, they simply can't believe why we don't have the choice.

 

[ciscoeuk]

You're quite right. Except, I believe this is where the Record Power TS200 comes in. It has a sliding beam and optional right-hand extension table but, no sliding carriage/table or outrigger. As far as I'm aware, there's not another saw quite like this one available to us in the UK (excluding the Jet JTS-600, with its sliding carriage).

did you know that most of the record and jet power tools are made in china & tiwain, anyone owns a either check for the makers mark on a sticker

alibaba search and i found record without the logos on

 

[wizer]

Guys I think you are over estimating the size of the UK hobby market. In the states, it seems most guys have a workshop of some sort. Whether they are into woodworking or metal working, it's common place. Not one of my male friends are in any way interested in having their own workshop and barely any of them do their own DIY. Serious DIY'ers in this country, rarely get serious enough to go down the workshop route. It's just a very tiny market. It probably is growing.

Olly, that record TS200 is terrible IMHO, it's trying too hard and fails. I know Martin Chapman likes his, but he's the only positive review I've seen on the thing.

I'd love to see a the 'hybrid' saw the the yanks are getting now, over here. At a reasonable price too. But if Lyndhurst went out of business and the only other company importing something like that are Woodford, then they probably speaks volumes for the state of the market.

Don't hold your breath.

 

[Bluekingfisher]

I wouldn't necessarily agree with you on that point wizer, I don't think they have a bigger interest in woodworking per se' but they are just given a bigger choice. It could be compared with their car market. The yanks had retractable roofs, stereos, air con in most of their cars in the SIXTIES we have only in the past 10 years or so seen these as common place. When I started driving in the early eighties FM radios were not even fitted to most cars as standard. We all had to endure the poor quality until we demanded better and more choice.

The Americans demand a choice and they get it. Choice will encourage spending, therefore competition, leading to cheaper prices for the end user. But why would the sellers want to work harder for less profit when they know all we have on offer here is tat...like it or lump it

 

[OPJ]

Olly, that record TS200 is terrible IMHO, it's trying too hard and fails. I know Martin Chapman likes his, but he's the only positive review I've seen on the thing.

If that's only your opinion then, fair enough. Although, I don't think you've actually used the saw, have you....? :roll: No, neither have I!

Since Record released it in the UK, I've read positive reviews and comments in the magazines that I trust (GWW and BW). Recently, I've also contacted both Nick and Ben Plewes to see how their opinions may have changed since their initial thoughts were published. Both spoke in praise of the machine, as you get a lot of saw for your money. Both admit it isn't perfect but, with the five-year warranty, Record will go along way to sort out any issues. Ben's been using his for two-years now so, I highly value his opinion. He doesn't believe you can get a better saw of the same size for the same money, brand new - and that's very important to me.

There don't appear to be many people around who own this saw so, if I wanted to get hands-on before I buy (and I would!), that wouldn't be easy. I suppose you could ask why that is.... I believe it's partly down to price - anyone looking to spend £600 on a saw like this would generally expect a sliding table (I don't see why you couldn't add one, personally). Or, they'd be looking at something smaller/bigger altogether. If you want to add that it is over-priced for what it is then, yes, based on appearances, I'll agree with you.

You need to have more faith in Record, Tom!! :wink: Their after sales service has come a long way in recent years - they're not Rutlands or Dakota!

Sorry, rant over.

 

[Bluekingfisher]

I think wizer does own the TS200, that's the one he is using now although he may prove me wrong :duno:

 

[Dibs-h]

Not one of my male friends are in any way interested in having their own workshop and barely any of them do their own DIY. Serious DIY'ers in this country, rarely get serious enough to go down the workshop route. It's just a very tiny market. It probably is growing.

That's so true - whilst some people I know might attempt a bit of DIY - i.e. decorating etc. no-one I know, male or female (watching Holmes on Homes last night - I could really do with some female assistants like that) is able to get past hanging a door. Making any kind of stuff (as done by most on here) - absolutely no chance.

But then again I did woodwork at school in lessons and at lunchtimes - haven't the foggiest if it is even taught nowadays?

 

[wizer]

No I don't own the Record TS200 I own the Axi TS200 (equally a poor machine)

I haven't used the saw, But I'd played with it many times and wasn't impressed. Maybe it was poorly setup the few times I've seen it. But it just oozed cheap and nasty IMHO. I think a lot of these raving reviews for saws like both TS200's come from people who've never used a proper saw and don't really know what to expect. Also, I'm just not a fan of sliding tables on small saws. It doesn't make sense.

 

[ciscoeuk]

No I don't own the Record TS200 I own the Axi TS200 (equally a poor machine)

I haven't used the saw, But I'd played with it many times and wasn't impressed. Maybe it was poorly setup the few times I've seen it. But it just oozed cheap and nasty IMHO. I think a lot of these raving reviews for saws like both TS200's come from people who've never used a proper saw and don't really know what to expect. Also, I'm just not a fan of sliding tables on small saws. It doesn't make sense.

at last its something we can agree upon,

i own a jet 315s at present with carrage it a pain i have keep taking the sliding unit off to us the main saw for small jobs is is a real pain in the a$se :-({|=

 

[wizer]

I wasn't aware we disagreed on anything Cisco

It beggers belief why there is a sliding carriage on that saw. Why on earth did you buy it?