Luthier needs band saw advice please.

[scubadoo]

Hi guys, I'm new to the forum but have been reading a fair few threads over the last few weeks.

I'm hoping that you could give me some advice on bandsaws. I'm currently building guitars and am trying to persuade the wife to let me get a saw (managed to get the Bosch twin base router under the radar but think the bandsaw may be impossible to sneak in!).

Most of the timber woud be about 2" thick, mahogany, ash, maple etc but i would also in an ideal world like the ability to rip bookmatched pieces and veneers so i guess i would need a depth of cut of at least 200mm. Also i occasionally scavenge whole trees and it would great to be able to process quartersawn planks after I've rough cut with the chainsaw.

Biggest problem is that I'm pretty skint. £200-300 is the max so i guess secondhand? fleabay?

I've never used one before and don't know which models to look at so any advice would be greatfully received.

Best wishes
Dave

 

[DangerousDave]

Hi Dave and welcome
I would imagine you'd need something fairly beefy to resaw stock of that size. Like you say, Ebay is the probably the place to go. Sadly, there seems to be a lot of machinery on these days with joinery firms hitting the wall. Either that or local auctions, I know there's some people on here have picked up some good bargins lately.

BTW, you weren't by any chance on 'Popmaster' on Radio 2 a while back? There was a bloke called Dave on who was a Luthier...maybe just coincidence...wouldn't imagine there's that many luthiers around, I've heard it's an even more precarious way of making a living than furniture making

 

[scubadoo]

Must have been a different Dave, there are a lot of us :wink:

I'm only just starting building guitars so it's not exactly a way of making a living at the moment, but my previous profession has taken a nosedive as well

Can you point me in the direction of any models i should consider?

Cheers
Dave

 

[DangerousDave]

Wadkin, Startrite, iTech etc... There's quite a few on Ebay at the mo. Or take a look here
Hope that helps

 

[DangerousDave]

BTW, I have an Axminster AWESBS which is a fantastic bandsaw. It wouldn't be up to resawing stock of your size but Axminster do a range of larger machines. Might be worth checking them out...

 

[scubadoo]

Thanks,

I take it that something like a Rcord Power BS300e wouldn't be up to it then?

What shoud i be looking for in the spec. I see that the AWESBS that you mention has a max cutting height of 200mm but is it not powerful enough to resaw 170mm timber?

Thanks for the help
Dave

 

[DangerousDave]

Not sure about the Record, it seems a decent enough spec although I know there's a few on here have had probs with Record machines. 100mm is the max I've resawn hardwood on the AWESBS and I wouldn't want to push it much more than this TBH. I'm sure there's others with more experience of a wider range of BS's that could prob give better advice...

Sorry thats not much help

 

[scubadoo]

Thanks Dave,

I quite like the sound of the Record BS300e, have seen it for £350 delivered. Still too much money though!

 

[ByronBlack]

I was in the same sitution recently. The only bandsaw I found of sufficient quality, power and depth of cut for a reasonable price was the Scheppach Basato 4, have a look on D&M tools website for prices.

You won't get what you want with your budget unless a gift comes up on ebay, but i've been looking for the best part of a few years for a bargain with that capacity and have failed to find anything that didn't need a lot of work.

I would avoid the record unless you are going for one of their bigger ranges, I tested it against the scheppach at a recent show and was very disapointed with the record.

[/i]

 

[scubadoo]

hmm, something tells me i'm going to have to make do without a bandsaw!

i saw a startrite 301 that went on ebay for £180, maybe i should have gone for that.

Cheers
Dave

 

[OPJ]

In the past, I've been able to resaw a good 5"/6" on my 12" SIP saw without too much trouble. Along with using a sharp, good quality blade, having plenty of tension on the drive belt is also very important. I've been cutting some 3" thick beech today and, with a ½"x4tpi, it's doing okay.

Trouble with a lot of modern saws is that they cannot tension blades wider than ½", despite what it might say on the manual or on the side of the machine.

 

[Ironballs]

I was also in the same position as BB recently, I had the small Axminster (120mm DOC) which could cut through 4" mahogany without much fuss but obviously didn't have the capacity to re-saw bigger boards.

I also spent a lot of time watching ebay for Startrites and Electra Beckums, but they always go for north of 400 quid even when not in brilliant condition. I ended up getting a SCM Minimax 45 that OPJ pointed me in the direction of, still spent over 500 quid but it's a lot of saw - incidentally the guy I bought it from is a luthier and he had the big Basato.

By all means keeping looking for a bargain but I think you'll need to up your budget - if you're set on re-sawing. You will fing it very hard/slow to build guitars without a bandsaw though

Cheers

Damian

 

[MIGNAL]

The Record BS 300 should cut to it's maximum. I say should because I've no direct experience of that machine. My piece of junk Perform cuts to 6 inch (it's maximum) in figured Maple. Might struggle to do Rosewood though!
It's all about the set up, feed rate and the correct blade. The 5/8 th's resaw blade that I got from Dragon transformed my Bandsaw. - night and day difference. Use either the thin or medium gauge (depends on TPI/blade width) blades on the smaller machines.
The Record should be way better than my Perform. Perhaps give Record a call and tell them what you require of the machine. I think they should give you a honest answer regarding it's capability to cut at 8 inch in the timbers you mentioned. I'd be surprised if it wasn't up to the task of cutting those type of woods at 8 inch. Just don't expect the fast feed rates you get on the much bigger machines.

 

[scubadoo]

I would avoid the record unless you are going for one of their bigger ranges, I tested it against the scheppach at a recent show and was very disapointed with the record.

[/i]

Thanks,

What didn't you like about the Record?

 

[scubadoo]

I was also in the same position as BB recently, I had the small Axminster (120mm DOC) which could cut through 4" mahogany without much fuss but obviously didn't have the capacity to re-saw bigger boards.

I also spent a lot of time watching ebay for Startrites and Electra Beckums, but they always go for north of 400 quid even when not in brilliant condition. I ended up getting a SCM Minimax 45 that OPJ pointed me in the direction of, still spent over 500 quid but it's a lot of saw - incidentally the guy I bought it from is a luthier and he had the big Basato.

By all means keeping looking for a bargain but I think you'll need to up your budget - if you're set on re-sawing. You will fing it very hard/slow to build guitars without a bandsaw though

Cheers

Damian

Thanks Damian, really helpful.

I've been having a think and i could probably get away with something that can resaw 160mm. maybe the record bs300 would do?

 

[scubadoo]

BTW, I have an Axminster AWESBS which is a fantastic bandsaw. It wouldn't be up to resawing stock of your size but Axminster do a range of larger machines. Might be worth checking them out...

One more question, how deep a cut do you think it could handle? I guess I would need 6 1/2 to 7 " resaw.

 

[ByronBlack]

What didn't I like about the record? Almost everything (in comparison to the scheppach). The build quality wasn't great, the tensioning mechanism was very light weight, despite having their own demonstrator using it, he couldn't resaw a straight line in softwood. It's capacity was no where near it's claimed depth of cut. All in all, I was very disapointed with it, but you get what you pay for in regards to a bandsaw.

If you don't need to resaw caps for the front of the instrument, and only need it for fretboards and such like you can get away with a smaller cheaper bandsaw, but even they can sometimes struggle with ebony and rosewood.

At a minimum I would go for the 14" axminster SBW3501B (clone of the 14" jet - I've owned both, and both are very good).

The AWESBS will struggle with hardwoods at 6"+ depth of cut, you'll have to have a very sharp blade and take it slowly, it's an ok machine, but not capable of tensioning a blade properly over 12mm, it really struggles with ebony & rosewood.

 

[scubadoo]

Thanks ByronBlack.

Not want I wanted to hear though :wink:

That SBW3501B is out of my range at £580.

I guess it's ebay then :roll:
Cheers
Dave

 

[MIGNAL]

Byron, did you try one of Ians 5/8th's resaw blade on those machines? I think it's the equivalent of the woodslicer blades that are so well thought of in the US. In fact it may be the very same blade as Ian told me they import them from the states - or at least he used to. If my Perform can tension one of those blades I'm pretty certain either the Axminster or the Record will, either that or my Perform is a wonder machine!
There's a big price difference between such machines and the 14 inch Jet or the Sheppach. There's also a big difference between cutting Maple at 6" and Ebony at 6 ". All I can say is that my Bandsaw, complete with that particular blade will cut Maple at 6 inch. It won't do it quickly but it t does give a decent cut with little wander.

 

[ByronBlack]

Mignal, I have tried about 4 different blades from Ian, I can't honestly remember if one was a 5/8th, but we certainly had problems getting the tension enough on the AWESBS to cut rosewood fingerboards, and large pieces in rock maple proved difficult. - I'm not saying it's impossible, just not very easy, but to be fair I am comparing to the 14" Jet and Basato 4.