Lulu james course

[djellworth]

This thread has quite upset me - I have a few thoughts :

The more woodwork schools the better. I want more people to get into it and I know that for many it is quite hard to start off on your own despite (or maybe because of) YouTube. My dad used to teach at nicght schools which are predominantly no more so there is a huge gap.

I run a woodwork school. (northernschoolofwoodwork which I took over from Chris Tribe for those of you who know him). Having spoken to him about this, he would have been very happy creating magnificent pieces on his own and would have not begun teaching if not to help pay the rent.

I love my workshop and the teaching pays for it. As those of you with a professional workshop know, it costs a lot simply to keep the lights on (approx £20k+ for me here). Teaching does often subsidise your "day job".

I am lucky in that I really like teaching and find it very rewarding - but as any teachers know it can also be quite involved/tiring/demanding. In the last year alone Peter S has shut down teaching (for other reasons) and also the courses at the Boat Building Academy have closed down - it really isn't as "lucrative" as many may think.

My brother went on a course in Oxford with Lula James (this is the business name - it is one male and one female) - bought as a present for him. He reported back that they had beautifully well kept tools (hand sharpening no honing guide!!!!!) - that most people really enjoyed the course (they have great Google reviews) and that he was certainly enthused enough during the day to pick up the chisels again. (Our dad was a woodwork teacher and cabinet maker who had a very old school background). He did feel that the teachers were quite young albeit very enthusiastic and will undoubtedly get better as they age - but very "proper" in their approach to hand tool wooodwork and a genuine love of wood and the craft. They have a small workshop in Oxford and he guessed that they are doing this to help them maintain a workshop and to pay the bills whilst they build the other side of their business

Woodworking is especially hard for women. I know someone who won the Alan Peters prize (and went to Rycotewood as it happens....) and she is a truly exceptional woodworker - way better than me. It is very tough even with this background to make reasonable money woodworking. Comments such as "she looks a cracker" continue to make it hard and should my 20 year old daughter want to get into woodwork comments like this this would make me want to respond very forcefully.

My conclusion - more power to Lula James woodwork school

 

[Blackswanwood]

This thread has quite upset me - I have a few thoughts :

The more woodwork schools the better. I want more people to get into it and I know that for many it is quite hard to start off on your own despite (or maybe because of) YouTube. My dad used to teach at nicght schools which are predominantly no more so there is a huge gap.

I run a woodwork school. (northernschoolofwoodwork which I took over from Chris Tribe for those of you who know him). Having spoken to him about this, he would have been very happy creating magnificent pieces on his own and would have not begun teaching if not to help pay the rent.

I love my workshop and the teaching pays for it. As those of you with a professional workshop know, it costs a lot simply to keep the lights on (approx £20k+ for me here). Teaching does often subsidise your "day job".

I am lucky in that I really like teaching and find it very rewarding - but as any teachers know it can also be quite involved/tiring/demanding. In the last year alone Peter S has shut down teaching (for other reasons) and also the courses at the Boat Building Academy have closed down - it really isn't as "lucrative" as many may think.

My brother went on a course in Oxford with Lula James (this is the business name - it is one male and one female) - bought as a present for him. He reported back that they had beautifully well kept tools (hand sharpening no honing guide!!!!!) - that most people really enjoyed the course (they have great Google reviews) and that he was certainly enthused enough during the day to pick up the chisels again. (Our dad was a woodwork teacher and cabinet maker who had a very old school background). He did feel that the teachers were quite young albeit very enthusiastic and will undoubtedly get better as they age - but very "proper" in their approach to hand tool wooodwork and a genuine love of wood and the craft. They have a small workshop in Oxford and he guessed that they are doing this to help them maintain a workshop and to pay the bills whilst they build the other side of their business

Woodworking is especially hard for women. I know someone who won the Alan Peters prize (and went to Rycotewood as it happens....) and she is a truly exceptional woodworker - way better than me. It is very tough even with this background to make reasonable money woodworking. Comments such as "she looks a cracker" continue to make it hard and should my 20 year old daughter want to get into woodwork comments like this this would make me want to respond very forcefully.

My conclusion - more power to Lula James woodwork school

Great post.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I met some odd DTs on this box. https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/mystery-box.134102/
Not remotely decorative but very functional.
I reckon it's a "box joint" (obviously) but designed so that
1 the sides can't be forced apart from the inside (as for a cistern etc)
2 Done like a straight box joint but bent, with exactly same machining on both pieces, no tails and pins.

I can't recall seeing anything with the joint in that form. It looks to me like a modified box-lock joint, aka finger joint, with the modification being an additional angle thrown in for the purpose you speculate. I also don't recall seeing that thread you pointed us towards, but that might just be wonky memory on my part. Slainte.

 

[Jacob]

.....

Woodworking is especially hard for women. I know someone who won the Alan Peters prize (and went to Rycotewood as it happens....) and she is a truly exceptional woodworker - way better than me. It is very tough even with this background to make reasonable money woodworking. Comments such as "she looks a cracker" continue to make it hard

Sorry was meant to be a joke - the link was to Lulu James - a particularly spectacular African soul singer. You obviously didn't click on it and she obviously isn't a woodworker! I'll edit it.
https://www.phoenixmag.co.uk/article/third-culture-kid-the-multi-cultural-majesty-of-lulu-james/

and should my 20 year old daughter want to get into woodwork comments like this this would make me want to respond very forcefully.

My conclusion - more power to Lula James woodwork school

Good luck to them. I was asking about the independent woodwork teaching scene not least because it seems to have a very particular culture and style of its own (often referred to as "post modern") which seems a long way from traditional woodwork.
I wondered what could be learned in one day.
My own training was a 6 month fast track version of C&G carpentry and joinery which I though was brilliant. I spent the first week doing hardly anything but half housing joints in bits of 2x1" , making little crosses. All about face and edge marks, marking up from these, saw cuts and bench hooks, chisel etc. Could have supplied a pets' cemetery!
My first day I was shown how to use a mortice chisel, just as something to do whilst they got me sorted out, but in fact a little revelation in hand tool use... etc etc

 

[mark w]

Im of a similar mind tbh jacob. To the point i would avoid putting dovetails on something as i find them somehow against what i love about woodwork. I know a bit extreme but dovetails are a fetish amongst fine furniture people which is frankly daft. Much rather a bloody big nail!

Dovetails are good strong joints, why avoid them, is there a better joint to be used between drawer sides and their corresponding fronts and backs?

 

[johnnyb]

Its that there an arbitrary signal of a craftsman. Ive had people who have neverpicked up a saw say" id like to learn dovetails" wtf! They symbolise (to me) elitist and unaffordable. As well as being over engineered and taking way to long. Like turning on furniture it immediatly suggests a style.
Apart from that there great!

 

[johnnyb]

Only student drawers are dovetailed front and back!

 

[johnnyb]

I started this thread to highlight there course tbh and make sure people were aware of it. Teaching seems to fall into a few categories. Trade teaching(in a workshop), hobby teaching(short)(often hand tools or lathes), paid for "college" teaching(expensive and elitist) (longer courses, furniture only),
Trade teaching(college)(day release, joinery, free)
What a successful outcome is varies with each one. The hobby courses are of by ""personalities" as this adds to the great experience. Are they training for a serious career? Of course not. The paid for college teaching has somewhat changed it was a possible career 40 or more years ago. Albeit hard. Nowadays its probably not unless your moving in top circles. Hence one feeds the other. Some authenticity is valuable in most of those teaching roles. Maybe its that people feel is lacking in lulas courses that people have picked up on.

 

[Jacob]

Its that there an arbitrary signal of a craftsman. Ive had people who have neverpicked up a saw say" id like to learn dovetails" wtf! They symbolise (to me) elitist and unaffordable. As well as being over engineered and taking way to long. Like turning on furniture it immediatly suggests a style.
Apart from that there great!

They are the best joint for boxes and if you get sorted out they are fairly quick - have to be if making a chest of drawers for instance which may have 100 or more.
Like sharpening you have to avoid the "modern" (magazine, youtube etc) methods and go freehand; it's quicker and easier.
A fine DT saw 15tpi or less is handy but not essential - fine hacksaw will do. No DT gauges, no coping saws, no special chisels.
Most essential is a good clamping system and I re-discovered what I call a beam clamp. No need to buy anything!
I'd always made do, not having to do DTs very often, but thought I'd have a crack at a system and did a slightly long winded thread about it here https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/chest-of-drawers-wip.116324/
Demos on youtube not all bad I'll see if I can find one or two. PS just had a look couldn't find anything worth watching!
Don't use a DT jig. It takes longer just to mark them up rather than to saw them straight off freehand. It also means you have to saw to marks which is painstaking and error prone. DT jigs are a fundamental mistake - you can do very neat ones without them, and so much quicker.
Saw two opposite sides together in the vice - always saw slightly over the gauge line so that corners don't need cleaning out .....etc etc

 

[Puggers]

Free and unsolicited advertising for Lula James with a mixed set of opinions available to a really wide audience of enthusiasts won't do them any harm, I'm sure.

I hope they and any other similar enterprise with the right intentions and ability to help people learn and get more from their hobby (or future profession) succeed.

As I've said before about those who may question how good woodworking shows are, they won't be for everyone (all of the time) but if we don't support them when we're able, they soon won't exist.

Maybe if anyone knows one of the two running the courses, they could let them know of the interest and opinion their events have more generally raised here as they might want to contribute (not defend their position, of course).

@djellworth , Nick, thanks for sharing some insight from the coal face - glad everything's going well since the move from Ilkley.

@Jacob six months, hey? Noting that one week was focused on half-housing, how many of the following 25 weeks were the indoctrination into the use of push sticks and single approach sharpening technique?

As Frankie Howerd would say, "No, stop it....." I'm only joking too of course in the same spirit as your link above .

We've all got something to add, whether it's a paid for course or right to a free opinion through this forum.

 

[Jacob]

.....

@Jacob six months, hey? Noting that one week was focused on half-housing, how many of the following 25 weeks were the indoctrination into the use of push sticks and single approach sharpening technique?

The focus on half housings was about basic procedure and accuracy. About 10 minutes on sharpening and nothing on push sticks - it was all hand work not a machine in sight, not even a powered drill.

 

[johnnyb]

Hopefully if there a success they can introduce some wood machining skills into there courses.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Only student drawers are dovetailed front and back!

Cobblers! Don't be silly, although I suspect you were perhaps being merely provocative. Many of my drawers were/are dovetailed front and back, not all of course, but many, and I'm way past being a student, although I do sometimes teach students. Slainte.

 

[Jacob]

Cobblers! Don't be silly, although I suspect you were perhaps being merely provocative. Many of my drawers were/are dovetailed front and back, not all of course, but many, and I'm way past being a student, although I do sometimes teach students. Slainte.

.......and anyway the ones at the back are simplified so it makes things a bit easier.
They are out of sight so don't need to be quite so neat, and backs are thinner than fronts so the DTs have to be fatter - a fine thin one would be too fragile.

 

[johnnyb]

Of course i was being daft but the sliding dovetail thread illustrates my point. Theres hand tools in that thread i never new existed. The op sounds like, not a beginner but a restarter. I dont object to anyone else using them, or even the things themselves. Its just im not keen on using them in my things. I would expect highly trained craftsmen to be obligated to put dovetails everywhere. And its that obligation i find both fetishistic and unnecesary. Then woodwork school in stoke is actually called dovetails !

 

[Jacob]

Of course i was being daft but the sliding dovetail thread illustrates my point. Theres hand tools in that thread i never new existed.

Yes it is a bit over the top!
Sliding DTs (if you really need them which you probably don't) just need a tenon saw and a long and narrow enough paring chisel for the bevels and the bottom of the slot. If no paring chisel available just make do with whatever you have in the way of chisels.
They are out of sight anyway except for the ends. Just need to be a solid fit.

The op sounds like, not a beginner but a restarter. I dont object to anyone else using them, or even the things themselves. Its just im not keen on using them in my things. I would expect highly trained craftsmen to be obligated to put dovetails everywhere. And its that obligation i find both fetishistic and unnecesary. Then woodwork school in stoke is actually called dovetails !

It's all part of "modern woodworking". The theory is that if you have the mythical "correct" tools and do everything the mythically "correct" way it'll all turn out perfectly. Usually wishful thinking!