Lulu james course

[johnnyb]

Im being inundated with marketing for these guys. It seems its 2 recent rycotewood graduates doing short (upto 4 days) handtool courses. Hope it takes off for them. Just thought id mention it here as people occasionally ask for this stuff.
Struck me it must be very boring for these 2 who are the next gen showing beginners how to make a mortice and tenon. They should be in the thick of a busy commercial company or at least working for themselves. But i guess they maybe teach and make.(multi strand)
they do have a well marketed approach so take a look on facebook.

 

[robgul]

They, from what I can see on their website, they teach a couple of days a week and carry out "commercial projects" the rest of the time - I looked at doing one of their courses recently but my interest was more at the power tools/machines end of things so didn't sign up.

The offering and website etc does seem very professional and thought through.

 

[BigDean]

Having done a 1 day course with them, I think their lack of “real world” experience or maybe just a short time served is a negative. Nice people but just didn’t have the gravitas and confidence of a Peter Sefton. Unfortunately Peter has stopped training now as out of the 4 training courses I have been in, his was by far the best. I wouldn’t return but wish them well.

 

[johnnyb]

Its a tricky thing to do well. Ive always found the best craft teachers are the most critical and literally demand your best work. But always help you to get there...
real beginners need treating more carefully though if there to carry on.
also the dynamic is changed when your paying for the course and not vice versa.

 

[johnnyb]

Gravitas seems unnecessary doing a one day course but when your paying you demand to be taught the simplest things by a grand master. In a real workshop the storeman will show you the simple stuff(and much trickier stuff as hes probably a retired craftsman)
I recall a story when da vinci painted an angel in one of his masters paintings. When the mastet saw it he immediatly gave up painting...

 

[robgul]

Having done a 1 day course with them, I think their lack of “real world” experience or maybe just a short time served is a negative. Nice people but just didn’t have the gravitas and confidence of a Peter Sefton. Unfortunately Peter has stopped training now as out of the 4 training courses I have been in, his was by far the best. I wouldn’t return but wish them well.

Yep - Peter stopping courses was a sad blow, I'd done one and was all set to do another - and the Axminster courses used to run at their HQ were pretty good - I think Covid killed them.

 

[Jacob]

Having done a 1 day course with them, I think their lack of “real world” experience or maybe just a short time served is a negative. Nice people but just didn’t have the gravitas and confidence of a Peter Sefton. Unfortunately Peter has stopped training now as out of the 4 training courses I have been in, his was by far the best. I wouldn’t return but wish them well.

What did you learn in a day?
I must say she looks a cracker.

 

[johnnyb]

There are 2 courses near me, one is in a converted cowshed one day hand tool stuff. One is in the old spode works and in one course he makes a workbench which i thought was a excellent idea. Both didnt strike me as being highly trained craftsmen but the cowshed guy was friendly and nice.
The last course i personally did was 2 years ago a 2 day course on trad stained glass. I now do all her take outs and yesterday she was helping me with a repair and it was a cheap course (£180) but she is a very experienced commercial stained glass artist. But working in that field its tricky to get commisions as its not high on peoples thoughts. So she does many repairs and some teaching. But make no mistake shes the real thing. Its the same in woodworking fancy furniture commisions are few and far between.

 

[johnnyb]

Jacob its not that lulu james i think theres 2 a lady and a lad.

 

[johnnyb]

https://www.googleadservices.com/pa...=2ahUKEwiWuNWu7_mKAxW_VEEAHR7zNrYQ0Qx6BAgYEAE

 

[mark w]

She gave a talk at The New Makers Conference last year, unfortunately most of her time should have been taken up with a PowerPoint video presentation which didn`t work, other than that she had very little to say. It seems to me Rycotewood is very good at producing furniture makers of the YouTube variety, social media studies must be very high on their curriculum. Good luck to them though.

 

[mark w]

Jacob its not that lulu james i think theres 2 a lady and a lad.

Her name is Daisy Brunsdon

 

[Jacob]

Jacob its not that lulu james i think theres 2 a lady and a lad.

I know I know, I was just being facetious.
But what can you learn in a day and is it worth it?
Would a one day course in "traditional" woodwork be very different and why?
I find much of this Rycotewood and similar "post modern" stuff a bit of a mystery and wonder if people make a living, other than by teaching another batch of aspirational post modern woodworkers.
The products are stuff which I just don't come across in the world I move in, except at shows. Maybe I should get out more!
PS Judging from their website it looks like highly lucrative nearly full-time teaching and very little actual production.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Go back 60+ years and a capacity for DIY was both financially desirable and practically useful. Normal blokes could put up a shelf, service a car, change a tap washer etc. The more ambitious could renovate a house or swap out an engine.

The world has changed and ability in the "crafts" (woodworking, metal working, stained glass, stone carving etc etc) is now entirely optional - one could live a lifetime and never know how to saw a piece of wood square, or change a plug (mostly now moulded on).

Making these skills attractive to younger folk needs "elevation" to a means to self fulfilment - hobbies!! Woodworking is non-essential - a skill to be taught and enjoyed in much the same way as folk may go on cookery weekends, art classes, pottery courses etc etc.

The teachers and teaching methods will necessarily be very different to those we may have been familiar with 50-70 years ago!!

 

[johnnyb]

Im of a similar mind tbh jacob. To the point i would avoid putting dovetails on something as i find them somehow against what i love about woodwork. I know a bit extreme but dovetails are a fetish amongst fine furniture people which is frankly daft. Much rather a bloody big nail!

 

[Jacob]

Im of a similar mind tbh jacob. To the point i would avoid putting dovetails on something as i find them somehow against what i love about woodwork. I know a bit extreme but dovetails are a fetish amongst fine furniture people which is frankly daft. Much rather a bloody big nail!

They obsess about "fine" dovetails but tend to ignore that traditionally, the vast majority were freehanded and somewhat irregular, because this was a fast, economical and practical way of making joints.
Maybe it still is, if one can get one's act together. Mine are all freehand!
Not unlike sharpening!

 

[Sgian Dubh]

They obsess about "fine" dovetails but tend to ignore that traditionally, the vast majority were freehanded and somewhat irregular, because this was a fast, economical and practical way of making joints.
Maybe it still is, if one can get one's act together. Mine are all freehand!
Not unlike sharpening!

Jacob, fine and freehand in a dovetail joint isn't an incompatibility as far as I know. I give you the example below which I reckon fall into what I know as the 'fine' category the lapped ones being somewhat delicately proportioned - they're pretty even too I'd say, i.e., not very irregular. I can't quite puzzle out what you're trying to say, really, but I am rather used to you, figuratively speaking, just opening your mouth here and letting your belly rumble, ha, ha. Slainte.

 

[Jacob]

Jacob, fine and freehand in a dovetail joint isn't an incompatibility as far as I know. I give you the example below which I reckon fall into what I know as the 'fine' category the lapped ones being somewhat delicately proportioned - they're pretty even too I'd say, i.e., not very irregular. I can't quite puzzle out what you're trying to say, really, but I am rather used to you, figuratively speaking, just opening your mouth here and letting your belly rumble, ha, ha. Slainte.

View attachment 196082​

Sorry about the belly rumbling!
All I meant was that they were often not as perfect as yours, often with variations in the angle and less than perfect spacings. Just done fast, but then the pins marked though the pin holes carefully so they'd still end up a good fit. If you look at old stuff it becomes obvious that nobody took much notice of the1/6 and 1/8 angles, which I think were probably just made up by a hack magazine writer. In fact 30º ish sometimes occurs, which is 1/2 .
30º the universal woodwork angle! Good job it's easy to visualise and replicate. Unless you are into modern sharpening of course in which case it's impossible and you need help in the form of a jig.
PS your reversed DTs in the carcase are a bit odd, I've never seen anything like that!
And aren't the half pins in the drawer front a bit thin? Risk of breaking out? They are usually fattened up.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Sorry about the belly rumbling!
All I meant was that they were often not as perfect as yours, often with variations in the angle and less than perfect spacings. Just done fast, but then the pins marked though the pin holes carefully so they'd still end up a good fit. If you look at old stuff it becomes obvious that nobody took much notice of the1/6 and 1/8 angles, which I think were probably just made up by a hack magazine writer. In fact 30º seems common, which is 1/2 .
30º the universal woodwork angle! Good job it's easy to visualise and replicate. Unless you are into modern sharpening of course in which case it's impossible and you need help in the form of a jig.
PS your reversed DTs in the carcase are a bit odd, I've never seen anything like that!
And aren't the half pins in the drawer front a bit thin? Risk of breaking out? They are usually fattened up.

Yes, I've seen many an example of what might be known as sloppy dovetails, e.g., angle variations, imperfect spacing, etc, but in my experience it's not particularly hard to do dovetails quickly, neatly and evenly angled or spaced. Perhaps those 'sloppy' joints were primarily executed by workers who didn't care, were not especially skilled, or had an employer that paid stingily or him/herself didn't care, and so on.

I can't help you on the 1/6 or 1/8 rake angle thing, but they're both pretty commonly suggested, and yes, those half pins are delicate simply because that's what I wanted to do and knew I wouldn't cause them to break out.

Those aren't 'reverse' dovetails you see; I know them as double twisted dovetails, but there's another name out there which I don't recall; Japanese name, I think. There are a couple of examples below, with the upper one executed carefully, and the one in poplar below that knocked out in about 30 or so minutes to demonstrate the methodology to some learners, probably explaining why the end result is a bit shonky, although they've been assembled/disassembled probably hundreds of times, which may be another factor affecting appearance. Slainte.

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[Jacob]

I met some odd DTs on this box. https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/mystery-box.134102/
Not remotely decorative but very functional.
I reckon it's a "box joint" (obviously) but designed so that
1 the sides can't be forced apart from the inside (as for a cistern etc)
2 Done like a straight box joint but bent, with exactly same machining on both pieces, no tails and pins.