Loft conversion questions

[Pallet Fancier]

Hi folks,
I'm eyeing up the loft. It's a 1920's house, ceiling is fully insulated but not the roof (that's a project for later). I know nothing, so please feel free to mention anything you think I need to know, or may have overlooked.

There's about a century of dust up there, so I'm going in equipped with a respirator! (Dust allergy.) I've only got a 600 x 600 access hatch at the moment, so I think my first job is installing one of those folding loft access stairs.

I am earnestly advised by many websites that sell loft conversion gear that I need loft legs or I'll get condensation problems because of the lack of airflow. I assume this is only if you're fully insulating it and turning it into a room... but I want to do that, eventually, so do I really need loft legs or does this only apply to newer, post-1960's houses?

I've seen insulated flooring called Tekwarm which is shown going straight down on the rafters, no loft legs, so presumably no air gap. Would this not have condensation problems?

Cheers

 

[Bingy man]

I’ve been involved with a large house that’s been renovated from top to bottom including a large double loft . Having stripped of the 4 layers of loft insulation and the 100+ years of dust , lath and plaster , ceilings and walls the dust was horrific to say the least, even with masks and goggles your eyes will burn because as you sweat it runs down your forehead and into you eyes . Tip have a large bucket of water. And several old towels. I’m no expert but you will need to assess the size of the timber joists within the loft ( the ones that hold up your bedroom ceilings . In the house I’m referring to the joists were 80mm x 220 mm so more than strong enough to support a room above. If your joists are not strong enough then you will need to install new supporting joists independent of the existing joists and this will of course reduce your available head room . The loft legs you refer to are only to allow you to store items without compromising the insulation. If you intend turning it into a room I would get a builder in to asses the situation before you get your hopes up ..also adding effectively a 2nd floor may mean additional fire safety measures..good luck if you go ahead with your project..

 

[Sachakins]

Loft conversion have so many regulations, I would get in at least 3 professional installation companies for quotes and advice. Its a minefield and contrary to belief is not always allowed as permissible development, always check with them first before you even think about getting quotes. A quick email to them will clarify it.
Even if your council allows it, the building regulations still apply and there's a lot of regulations for loft conversions.

 

[Bingy man]

The house I’m referring to has had to have fd30 doors , hinges and frames all round on all floors ,, hard wired smoke alarms in every room , dormer windows to accommodate the head room for the stairs and 4 velux windows .
Edit — forgot the door closers for every door ..

 

[Pallet Fancier]

Ok, I'm currently thinking wooden battens for a subfloor (not the loft legs - the suppliers tell me those aren't good enough for anything other than light weight storage). I may not add extra insulation as the long term plan is to insulate the roof, anyway, and it will only add cost and time, now. I'm not worried about head height. It's pretty good, throughout.

The area is about 180 square feet (it will be less, in fact, because I won't be boarding out under the eaves, and will wall off the "edges" later when I insulate the roof). I'm thinking 2x4 for the battens. Is this enough?

Will I need to install steel girders to stiffen/strengthen the ceiling before adding the floor?

It seems that wooden ladders are the only ones you can get that have an insulated hatch lid. I'm fine with wood, but I'd like as big a hatch as possible, and as shallow a grade on the ladder as practical. It seems 1200mm may be the practical upper limit.

It seems that tongue and groove boards are the preferred way to go, but using T&G raises a question: if I need to get to the original ceiling (to rewire a downlighter, for example) then instead of just unscrewing a sheet of OSB, I'm going to have to get the circular saw out.

 

[Terrytpot]

..Having stripped of the 4 layers of loft insulation and the 100+ years of dust , lath and plaster , ceilings and walls the dust was horrific to say the least, even with masks and goggles your eyes will burn because as you sweat it runs down your forehead and into you eyes…

Been there and it’s really not that pleasant. We moved to an “L” shaped bungalow a few years back which had evidence of mice in the loft. In our infinite wisdom we decided it should be a relatively easy task for myself and the “boss” to remove all the existing insulation, find the means of ingress for the critters, block it and then reinsulate and board a large chunk using loft legs and t&g board. After the first day’s unpleasantness we reconvened wearing underwear and one piece disposable overalls, masks,gloves and goggles although I personally spent more time without the goggles as they just kept steaming up for me. It’s a job I will never be attempting again as it’s much more suited to the younger ,slimmer ,fitter and much more nimble individual I mistakenly thought I still was! Got there eventually although I still need to address the issue of our loft hatch..

 

[Bingy man]

Been there and it’s really not that pleasant. We moved to an “L” shaped bungalow a few years back which had evidence of mice in the loft. In our infinite wisdom we decided it should be a relatively easy task for myself and the “boss” to remove all the existing insulation, find the means of ingress for the critters, block it and then reinsulate and board a large chunk using loft legs and t&g board. After the first day’s unpleasantness we reconvened wearing underwear and one piece disposable overalls, masks,gloves and goggles although I personally spent more time without the goggles as they just kept steaming up for me. It’s a job I will never be attempting again as it’s much more suited to the younger ,slimmer ,fitter and much more nimble individual I mistakenly thought I still was! Got there eventually although I still need to address the issue of our loft hatch..

Imo the best loft ladders are the wooden spring loaded ones. I think they have the highest weight rating which is important if like me you’ve gained a few extra pounds so myself + a heavy toolbox or a big boiler can easily overload the aluminium ones.. oh and yes no more loft strip outs for me unless the roof has been removed-

 

[whostolebenfrog]

I think what you go for depends a lot on whether it's occasional storage done to a nice standard, or you want to make it into a fully fledged room that's part of the house. If it's the latter then you have to tick all the boxes - if you do with without full building control sign off, it won't count as a room if you ever sell the house.

If it's just storage then I think you can go with what seems reasonable. Half the countries lofts are random offcuts of wood placed haphazardly over the insulation so you can't make it much worse than that! T&G is normal, it's not the end of the world if you ever have to cut it.

 

[Pallet Fancier]

I think what you go for depends a lot on whether it's occasional storage done to a nice standard, or you want to make it into a fully fledged room that's part of the house.

Cheers, mate. My thinking has evolved just over the past day (and after an hour spent crawling around like Gollum, measuring up). I'm now certain it will never be a proper "room" (my idea for where the staircase would hypothetically go won't work, it turns out). But it can be useful regular-access storage. I need to be able to move stuff around and not worry about overloading a particular area. And I don't want the ceilings to crack!

To do it properly I'll need 5m joists as the interior wall isn't supporting, and I'm struggling to see how to get a single 5m joist up there, even with a new hatch. Not unless someone invents wobbly wood!

But yes, as you say, half the country ain't doing it properly, either. My neighbour is one of them. When he had the ceiling down for other work, he chucked a load of USB sheets up there and just screwed them to the rafters. He hasn't fallen through the floor... yet. But he also admits that he's noticed a couple of cracks in the bedrooms! So I think I definitely want a subfloor of some description. The hard part is figuring out what I can achieve without cutting more holes in the house to get the timber in.

 

[Bingy man]

Cheers, mate. My thinking has evolved just over the past day (and after an hour spent crawling around like Gollum, measuring up). I'm now certain it will never be a proper "room" (my idea for where the staircase would hypothetically go won't work, it turns out). But it can be useful regular-access storage. I need to be able to move stuff around and not worry about overloading a particular area. And I don't want the ceilings to crack!

To do it properly I'll need 5m joists as the interior wall isn't supporting, and I'm struggling to see how to get a single 5m joist up there, even with a new hatch. Not unless someone invents wobbly wood!

But yes, as you say, half the country ain't doing it properly, either. My neighbour is one of them. When he had the ceiling down for other work, he chucked a load of USB sheets up there and just screwed them to the rafters. He hasn't fallen through the floor... yet. But he also admits that he's noticed a couple of cracks in the bedrooms! So I think I definitely want a subfloor of some description. The hard part is figuring out what I can achieve without cutting more holes in the house to get the timber in.

You will have to cut an access hole into the brickwork or remove part of the roof . Personally I’d find a spot at the front of the house above the bedroom ceiling and any joists or pipes . So find a suitable place and drill a 10 or 15 mm hole and confirm it’s suitable from inside the loft
Edit. At jyst under 17 feet you need to be certain you can manoeuvre them into position. My suggestion for the access point to be at the front of the house is based on them being off loaded from the lorry and then sent into the loft. It all depends on how much space you have and if there are any structures within the loft that could hinder your plans . At almost 17 ft how do you plan to support the new joists - if the plan is to fix them to the existing joists then this could lead to damage to the ceilings below as you move stuff around especially in the middle of that 17ft span ..