Lie-Nielsen what do I buy?

[Sam Salter]

OK you lot, I've been reading this forum for quite a while now & you've sucked me into this plane cult. I've told my wife that it's not my fault; you guys are the real problem; isn't that why we emigrated anyway?

She's not buying it!

Anyway, I've recently purchased a Lee Valley 4 1/2 smoother & a medium shoulder plane.
Well who knew?
I thought "How much better than my Stanley knockoff can these planes be that they're talking about?" Well did I get a surprise!

So now I'm infected. The tablets are not working.

Here's the question:
Saturday I'm going to a workshop on hand cutting dovetails. It's being taught by a Lie-Nielsen rep. Well, you know he's going to try & unload some of their planes - right? What do I buy? I'm thinking block plane - which one? What else should I be considering?

Don't duck out on me here - you're the reason I'm a lost soul!

sam

 

[MikeW]

Hi Sam,

I assume maybe the class is taught by Rob Cosman? If so, you're in for a treat from what I understand. I've got the DVDs, to be part of a class would be great.

Oh, what plane?

Ok, you make boxes (a lot. And btw, am I on your Christmas present list for this year???)
And you build decks (did I ever mention I'm not done on our remodel?)
Access to nice woods (like maple, walnut, birch, cherry, ash)...
You've built a killer bench (did you ever read mine is a Frankenbench?)

You've made it thus far, are you really sure you want to continue exploring the Dark Side?

Personally I would get two blocks from LN, assuming you don't have a block plane.

I would get both the #60 1/2 with a second blade. Grind the second blade about 30 deg. You'll find on figured woods like curly maple that the higher angle will tear out less (at the expense of greater effort).

I would also get the #102--in bronze. But that also make an iron version now (102I). I think it lacks the feel. Keep near you at all times. It's a great plane.

If you get tempted to get the LA smoother or Jack--I would personally get the Lee Valley versions. Easier to adjust, the smoother is as heavy (nearly) as a LN #4 1/2.

But...you're going to a DT class. I assume you have a good saw for cutting dovetails? Tenons? If not, and you have some spare cash and don't want to rehab some previously loved tools, get the LN saws.

Anyway, others will be along to help you spend your money...

Have fun at the class!

 

[Alf]

If it is Rob Cosman then you don't need us to help you spend your money; I gather he does a pretty good job. :lol: #60.5 would be my first thought too. The next would be the #4.5 but you've got that covered. The #140 skew rebate's been getting a lot more use than I had foreseen, fwiw...

Cheers, Alf

 

[Anonymous]

I'd go for the rabbet block plane. I've had mine for years and it is the most used block plane http://www.lie-nielsen.com/tool.html?id=60_5R I own (also have LN bronze 102 and LN standard block plane, a stanley and a record )

I use the rabbet on everything, especially end grain. I also clean pup tenon faces with it, which is something it excels at

Watch out for Cosman, he is said to be an ace salesman. I learnt to cut these DTs form his videos https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4773&highlight=houndstooth

Finally, buy the LN DT saw if you can. You won't regret it :wink:

 

[Scott]

Yup, the 60 1/2 block and the DT saw would be a good place to start your L-N collection :lol:

 

[edmund]

Thought I'd add my thoughts as a relative newbie to handtools (only started getting decent tools 18 months ago) on what I've ended up with so far on the handtool front:
1. as pretty much everyone else says the Lie-nielsen low angle block plane with adjustable mouth (L-N 60 1/2). It's dead good and you won't realize how you got along without one.
2. L-N no. 4 smoothing plane (also have a York pitch frog for this).
3. Clifton 3110 shoulder plane - I bought this as its an update of the old Record 311 (3 in 1 plane). Its a shoulder plane but you can replace the front to turn it into a bullnose, or leave off the front and use it as a chisel plane. I have found that it does the job of cleaning up tenons pretty well.
4. Second hand Record No.7 jointer with a new blade from Ray Iles. Joints edges very well.
5. Second hand Record 44 plough plane (got this because I don't have a router).
5. Certainly recommend getting a good saw. I started with an Adria dovetail saw which I rate very highly. I now have small and large cross and rip cut Adria tenon saws.
6. If you are planning on cutting dovetails by hand I would recommend some decent chisels. I'm into Japanese chisels (nomi) which I absolutely love - they sharpen to a mirror polished razor edge and keep it very well. I have 6 long handled dovetail chisels, 5 mortise chisels and a couple of paring chisels.
7. I've also benefitted from decent tools for marking, i.e. decent marking/mortise gauge, I also use metal engineers squares and a scalpel to mark wood with. I also have a quality metal dovetail square.

I'm sure this is a much more humble collection than the more experience guys out there (but I did complete my first serious project just using these which I posted on the forum).

Good luck with the dovetails!

 

[Sam Salter]

Thanks for the replys & the advice.

I went to the demo - yes it was Rob Cosman.

He spent an hour talking & demonstrating sharpening. Worth it just for that. When you're doing all this in isolation & just picking stuff up from books & forums, it's nice to see & be able to ask questions.

The dovetail demo was really excellent. This guy is so excited about this stuff that he gets you going as well. So many little tricks & tips that would take a lifetime to discover, if you had the fortitude to keep at it. His work is so fast & accurate it's a pleasure to watch.

I've never attempted any dovetails before, but after attending this demo, I feel confident I can do this & get a passable result first time.

I came away with a Lie-Nielsen dovetail saw & a 60 1/2 low angle block plane. (I would have bought a skew block plane with fence, but they didn't have any, so that will have to waite for another time).

Yes you guys were right - he is a good salesman. I so enjoyed the 4 hours (it was supposed to be 3, but he got carried away with the sharpening so it took longer - who's complaining) that I signed up for the mortice & tenon & through wedge tenon next Saturday. Now I've used mortice & tenons a lot, but all have been done on the table saw & band saw.

This was an excellent $50 worth (about 20 quid to you Brits). If you ever get the chance to go to one of his workshops I'd thoroughly recommend it.

sam

 

[Philly]

Nice one Sam!
That Rob C is indeed breathtaking to watch-for us Brits he will be at the Lie-Nielsen stand at Tools 2005 in November.
A good start with the tool purchases!
Philly

 

[Alf]

Yep, Rob's demonstrations are worth every penny we don't pay for 'em. :lol: I know some people have expressed some reservations on other fora and feel maybe the salesmanship goes too far, but I reckon he's simply an enthusiast and I'll be damned if I'll condem him for that. At least he's encouraging people towards good tools not mediocre ones, and heck, with 8 kids the man's gotta make a living! :shock: (Sorry, that's something I've been wanting to say for a while. I get fed up with people seeing enthusiasm as just a sales pitch. )

Cheers, Alf

 

[Ed451]

I met him at a wood show last fall. Yes, he's a salesman and thinks his products are the best, but, you have to admit they ARE very good. And, when he's at a show or demo, selling is the biggest reason he's there. In speaking with him on telephone, I've found him very personable. That's my experience, for what it's worth. In fact, I booked a day with him in September at his workshop on a one-to-one basis, since I know of no schools in the maritimes where I can get some training, without taking a cabinet-making course full-time at a Community College.

Ed

 

[Alf]

In fact, I booked a day with him in September at his workshop on a one-to-one basis

Oooo, gloatage. We'll want to hear all about it, you realise?

Cheers, Alf

 

[Ed451]

I'm of the opinion that Rob and I both have strong personalities, so it'll most likely be a close, or very short, friendship. I expect everything will go very smoothly, though, and I'm really looking forward to this. I'll shamelessly tell all when I get back.

Ed

Edit: I should add....don't expect too much, though. One workshop does not an expert make.

 

[MikeW]

Good for you, Sam. Glad you came away with a good experience--and the good tools don't hurt either!

 

[MikeW]

...Edit: I should add....don't expect too much, though. One workshop does not an expert make.

We only expect you enjoy yourself, and allow us to live a little vicariously through you.

And besides, if one workshop an expert not make, at least it is a step toward that end. Something I may never get to do in person.

And God knows I need it! I can make passable hand cut DTs, but the effort required makes me just use the Rat most of the time. Kinda self-defeating in regards to getting better doing them by hand.

 

[Sam Salter]

Well I went to the through wedge tenon demo yesterday - again money well spent. Although I've done machine mortice & tenon joints before - a lot of tips & insights that I'd spend years learning by myself.

Came away with a #140 skewed block plane Alf. Spent last night putting a black walnut fence on it - real pretty.
I've also ordered a Titemark & dovetail marker from Lie-Nielsons website.

If you get a chance to see Rob Cosman show his stuff I would recommend it to anyone. As a relative newcomer to this hobby, I got to see what hand tools can do. His enthusiasm & pursuit of perfection is addictive! I doubt I would have considered doing this stuff by hand if I hadn't seen how fast & achievable it is. I've come away with renewed excitement & a belief that I can do this!

I think the dark side has got me!!!

sam

 

[MikeW]

I think the dark side has got me!!!

he says as he slides ever so far down the slope...

 

[Alf]

If you get a chance to see Rob Cosman show his stuff I would recommend it to anyone.

Meant to get back to this for days... The next opportunity is The Festival of Wood at Westonbirt Arboretum, Bank Holiday weekend, on the Classic Handtools stand. More details here.

Came away with a #140 skewed block plane Alf. Spent last night putting a black walnut fence on it - real pretty.

Slip sliding away... :lol: You're more advanced than I, but thinking about it I do have some walnut offcuts hanging about now so maybe I'll take a leaf out of your book. Although I was thinking cherry... :-k

Cheers, Alf