Lie Nielsen tools

[Jameshow]

That's a bit unfair. Sure you don't need them but I would have thought it was up to the purchaser to decide what they want and what fits their budget. If we cant admire nice tools, why bother admiring nice (and expensive if you buy it) furniture, when a second hand Ikea will do the job just as well?.

Of course you can have nice tools....

But nice tools dosen't make you a cabinet maker!


Cheers James

 

[Vann]

...* clico folds, but before they do, they sell of anything anyone is willing to buy (clifton planes here). If flinn has purchased the brand for some cost, that has to be repaid or it makes no business sense. An upstart making their own way has to popularize what they're selling, but they don't have this initial cost...

I believe at least one of the management team at Clico was a handplane enthusiast and/or former Record employee. Whichever, they started making Clifton planes, not for a massive profit, but because they wanted to. I think they may have sold Clifton to Flinn for a song - just to keep the operation going - shortly before closing down.

Clico employed the last people in Britain (and possibly the Western world) who could manufacture auger bits a la blacksmith. So blacksmithing their cutting irons was all part of their skill base. Alas, too many people felt the blacksmith-made irons weren't up to the job - and I'm sure that made the decision to close down that part of the operation much easier for Flinn.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Devmeister]

This has been quite a chunk to swallow but really interesting. As a one person tool maker, it gives one food for thought.

Its nice to go to work and worry about making the best tool you can and worry if the customer is going to like it. Where you don’t need to concern yourself with the latest management fads etc.

I have been a Lie Nielsen user for over 30 years. Always been impressed and never let down.

Just recently I became aware of the Clifton saga. I carefully watched them making the block plane in the video which would be the latest version of Clifton. I took note of their production tools and methods. While they are a small company I stand impressed by what they do. I would not hesitate to obtain one of their tools if they were available to us.

Likewise I stand impressed by the French company Liogier. Yesterday I got my sausage fingers on one their rasps. The quality is nothing short of outstanding. Again, very hard to obtain with many dealers showing out of stock.

I personally am working on my own issues with the likelihood of moving my shop. Currently I have nothing in inventory while I work thru these issues.

COVID had been difficult on all of us. And I hope that folks can understand the effort it takes a small tool maker to create a very high quality tool. While some may find them unreasonably high in price, I find many to be reasonable. LN has kept pricing quite stable and reasonable from this perspective.

As a tool maker you depend on your metal cutting tools. If you think some hand planes are expensive, you should check out pricing on the metal side. Hardinge Brown and Sharpe collets for one of my milling machines are close to $200 dollars each. For a basic collet. A taper attachment for an HLV lathe is over $8000 dollars. So you learn to scan EBay!

So I think we all need to take a moment and appreciate the opportunity afforded us by the small tool makers. They love what they do and aren’t getting rich doing it. And they love to hear back from happy customers.

So I am willing to do my share in supporting them thru the COVID period and hope they all make it. We need them!

 

[GregW]

[Post removed]

From that reason I’m self employed

 

[Devmeister]

Of course you can have nice tools....

But nice tools dosen't make you a cabinet maker!


Cheers James

I have worked in three production shops equipped with millions of dollars worth of Homag, Weing and Holtzer machines.

Your comments are very true. As a CNC machinist, I had to fix problems from engineering and subsequent problems from assembly. Engineering simply sucked. It was a miserable time in my life.

That is why I will never buy cabinets. I know all the bodges and screw ups.

Nice tools don’t make you a cabinet maker but nice tools make a cabinet maker progressively happier and ultimately more productive.

 

[GregW]

I have worked in three production shops equipped with millions of dollars worth of Homag, Weing and Holtzer machines.

Your comments are very true. As a CNC machinist, I had to fix problems from engineering and subsequent problems from assembly. Engineering simply sucked. It was a miserable time in my life.

That is why I will never buy cabinets. I know all the bodges and screw ups.

Nice tools don’t make you a cabinet maker but nice tools make a cabinet maker progressively happier and ultimately more productive.

True, but most of clients with money, like to buy products bespoke and handmade.
with CNC you become IKEA competition

 

[paulm]

That's a bit unfair. Sure you don't need them but I would have thought it was up to the purchaser to decide what they want and what fits their budget. If we cant admire nice tools, why bother admiring nice (and expensive if you buy it) furniture, when a second hand Ikea will do the job just as well?.

Yep, if you look at other posts from the same source they are invariably much the same, chips on both shoulders, another one on the ignore list !

 

[Daniel2]

Some of us perceive tools purely as a means to an end, no more no less.
Others, myself included, see the tools we use as an intrinsic part of the
story. Although I'm no cabinet maker, I enjoy a deep pleasure and
satisfaction from using beautiful, well made tools coupled with an
absolute admiration and respect of their provenance.

 

[GregW]

Some of us perceive tools purely as a means to an end, no more no less.
Others, myself included, see the tools we use as an intrinsic part of the
story. Although I'm no cabinet maker, I enjoy a deep pleasure and
satisfaction from using beautiful, well made tools coupled with an
absolute admiration and respect of their provenance.

Machines made now are not letting me to do work. They are made from aluminium for button-operators, not for artisans

 

[paulrbarnard]

Machines made now are not letting me to do work. They are made from aluminium for button-operators, not for artisans

View attachment 132355

Looks like that has two buttons. Does that make you a button pusher too?

 

[Daniel2]

An on button and an emergency stop button, what more do you need ?

 

[GregW]

Looks like that has two buttons. Does that make you a button pusher too?

ON / OFF

rest is on me.

 

[GregW]

Looks like that has two buttons. Does that make you a button pusher too?

I don’t mind CNC, I’m can program C++, logic, Siemens… but in that case programmer and machine does elements, not the machine operator…

Making anything BY HAND, is the craftsmanship. It’s different from full automatisation, factory replication, mass production, etc…

 

[D_W]

chips on both shoulders

wood, metal or potato?

 

[DBC]

Yeah, that's what it looks like from down-under .

Actually, I never noticed. I wonder if I sourced the picture from the Russians...

View attachment 132242 Is this better?

Cheers, Vann (who's off to source another flag photo).

Just noticed you live in Petone. Great little place with some great old timber houses. I once moved a colonial weatherboard house from Petone up to the Kapiti Coast in the mid 90s. Cost the owner a fortune as the house carrying trucks were so wide he had to pay to get some roads closed as no one could could pass in either direction. All done in the middle of the night. Sorry for the off topic comment.

 

[Jameshow]

Yep, if you look at other posts from the same source they are invariably much the same, chips on both shoulders, another one on the ignore list !

Just another point of view what's wrong with that?

 

[Vann]

Just another point of view what's wrong with that?

The point of view could have been put more diplomatically, but I didn't think it was too far out of line. For me what stood out was the insult at the end...

...All you folks that pay hundreds or thousands of pounds for one tool.... pah! you need to get over yourselves!

If he meant it in fun he could have added a smile. If he has a track record of this, then the ignore list is the least we can do for him.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[clogs]

not so much now but in my youth working in California we had so many options on tools.....esp batt tools....
never heard of Makita before going there....
and u were able to afford them easily.....
Best we had was a Stanley pump s/driver.....hahaha....
nobody has mentioned but lets say DeWalt...they can tool upto make 1/2million drill drivers....and sell em all.....the best we could do in the UK was to make say 50,000....it's all a matter scale.....
As for LN products as nice as they are, for what I do the Stanley and Baily planes do it for me....
Thats mostly because I just use em for a clean up....
the machines do my grunt work....
and whoever started this post .....thanks.....
this forum is a great place to be.....

 

[Jameshow]

The point of view could have been put more diplomatically, but I didn't think it was too far out of line. For me what stood out was the insult at the end...



If he meant it in fun he could have added a smile. If he has a track record of this, then the ignore list is the least we can do for him.

Cheers, Vann.

I didn't see that bit I agree.....

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Of course you can have nice tools....

But nice tools dosen't make you a cabinet maker!


Cheers James

James, my rule is never to knock the tools someone owns. True, tools do not make a cabinetmaker, but there are plenty of cabinetmakers who would enjoy better tools. Many who probably do. We focus on the knowledge gained and not the books in the library.

I am fortunate to have been able to purchase many of the tools I aspired to, although it has taken quite a few decades to do so. They are not responsible for making my work possible, but they have made my work pleasurable. I do enjoy the aesthetic presentation of the tool as much as using the tool when I build furniture. And I will go to the trouble of building my own tools when I believe I can do better.

LN make wonderful tools.

Regards from Perth

Derek