Le Tour de France

[StevieB]

Sure, I agree he has a psychological advantage, but yesterdays stage took a huge effort. He has to take time out of both of the men that will come after him in the time trial to take yellow. If he can do it he will be a worthy champion indeed!

Steve.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Let's hear it for Floyd Landis =D> =D> =D> =D> What a fabulous time trial. Superb aerodynamic position on the bike, upper body hardly moving, legs twiddling a slightly lower gear than his rivals - a real joy to watch \/ \/ He has real style 8) 8) What a way to win back the yellow jersey.

Paul

 

[wrightclan]

Let's hear it for Floyd Landis =D> =D> =D> =D> What a fabulous time trial. Superb aerodynamic position on the bike, upper body hardly moving, legs twiddling a slightly lower gear than his rivals - a real joy to watch \/ \/ He has real style 8) 8) What a way to win back the yellow jersey.

Paul

Unbelievable! What a ride by a great guy! =D> =D> =D>

 

[wrightclan]

Let's see...won the Tour, now I think I'll go for that hip replacement. :-k
(What Landis must be thinking right now.)

 

[Paul Chapman]

What a cracking Tour =D> =D> I reckon that was one of the best we've seen for a long time - and it produced a real star in Floyd Landis. Let's hope his hip operation goes well. It will be interesting to see whether he is able (or will want) to resume his career afterwards - if he can produce a performance like that with a knackered hip, the mind boggles at what he might produce with a bionic one :shock: :shock:

Paul

 

[StevieB]

Indeed, a superb performance. I didnt think he would do it, which goes to show how much I know :lol:

It will be interesting to see next year how he goes against Basso in the mountains (assuming Basso is still racing!).

The surprise for me was Kloden - he didnt really feature in the tour at all until the final time trial, just marked Landis in the mountains and never made a breakaway attempt in either the Alps or Pyrenees. I thought Sastre would hold on for a podium place but sadly he blew in the time trial.

Roll on 2007 and a London prologue!

Steve.

 

[wrightclan]

Just read on cyclingnews.com, that Eddy Merckx placed a 100 euro bet at 75:1, for Landis to win the Tour. This was the morning after Landis' "bad" day. :lol:

Brad

 

[Paul Chapman]

Eddy Merckx - shrewd on the bike, shrewd off the bike

Paul

 

[wrightclan]

Bear in mind, Merckx's son is Landis' lieutenant. Merckx senior gave a pep talk to the team, saying a battle is lost, but the war is not over; no doubt helping to protect his investment. :lol: But Merckx himself won the '75 Tour in similar fashion by launching what seemed at the time to be a foolhardy 130km attack on a mountain stage. The "Cannibal" knows his stuff. 8)

 

[Paul Chapman]

But Merckx himself won the '75 Tour in similar fashion by launching what seemed at the time to be a foolhardy 130km attack on a mountain stage.

Yes, when Landis produced that epic ride in the Alps, I remember thinking that was the sort of thing Eddie Merckx would have done - let's hope Floyd can come back after his operation, the sport needs riders like him :wink:

Paul

 

[dedee]

Just had to spare a thought for the poor French. It's their game but they are not alllowed (sorry capable) of winning it. A bit like our football team?

Andy

 

[Chris Knight]

Gawd Andy - hope Valerie doesn't read the forum!

 

[Paul Chapman]

Just had to spare a thought for the poor French. It's their game but they are not alllowed (sorry capable) of winning it

Don't worry Andy, I'm sure their time will come again. If you look at the history of the Tour, the nationality of the victor has always gone in cycles (excuse the pun :roll: ). At one time Italy was dominant with Coppi and Bartali (saw Coppi race at Herne Hill cycle track in the 1950s - wow, he was impressive); then France had a spell with Bobet and the magnificent Jacques Anquetil; then of course it was Belgium's turn with the ultimate racing machine, Eddy Merckx; a brief spell with France again and Bernard Hinault; then it was Spain's turn with Big Mig, Miguel Indurain before the Americans seemed to take over. In between all these, of course, there were other nationalities, like Switzerland, Luxembourg and Germany.

It looks like France never wins but they have and they will again. Perhaps they just need to cut back a bit on the vino and Gauloises :lol:

Paul

 

[Noel]

I was away during the last week of the tour but managed to record the Alpine stages. Finally saw all I missed over the last few days and what a race. Was going to comment on the performance of Landis, especially having managed to claw back 8 odd minutes on GC and the inability or refusal of the pack to chase him down. Then I saw this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_s ... 221122.stm
Bear in mind that as the first sample is positive and this only means that he has the option to have sample B tested and the option to prove if the levels of testosterone/epitestosterone are produced naturally.
Whatever the outcome it's tainted this years event even more.

Stars for the future: Evans, Cunego, Schleck amongst others.

Good to see Millar and Wiggins making it to Paris.

Noel

 

[Paul Chapman]

Then I saw this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_s ... 221122.stm
Bear in mind that as the first sample is positive and this only means that he has the option to have sample B tested and the option to prove if the levels of testosterone/epitestosterone are produced naturally.
Whatever the outcome it's tainted this years event even more.

I'd missed that, Noel - thanks for pointing it out. What a blow. Let's hope it turns out to be a mistake of some sort, but it doesn't look good

Paul

 

[Mcluma]

the whole tour is a bl**dy joke

They are so full of drugs that the top of the body doesn't know what the bottom of the body is doing :evil: :evil: :evil:

there such a bunch of amateurs

 

[Alf]

there such a bunch of amateurs

Unfortunately they're not a bunch of amateurs and that seems to be the problem. Take the money out of it and chances are you'll eliminate the drugs as well.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Paul Chapman]

there such a bunch of amateurs

Unfortunately they're not a bunch of amateurs and that seems to be the problem. Take the money out of it and chances are you'll eliminate the drugs as well.

Cheers, Alf

Well said, Alf 8)

Paul

 

[StevieB]

I often wonder just how much of a performance advantage these 'supposed' drug cheats actually have. Sure, something like boosting red blood cells with EPO is going to help but the levels of nandrolone detected in athletics and stimulants in asthma inhalers or paracetamol for example are surely less of an advantage?

I remember a couple of years ago one of the tour riders was stung on the eyelid by a wasp. This needed a cream to take the swelling down but by using it he would be deemed to be a drug cheat so he had to resign from the tour. Is this seriously going to give him a performance advantage?

If Landis had excess testosterone (and I am not condoning drug taking in any way here) would it really have given him a 6 minute advantage over the rest of the field on stage 17?! Far more likely (IMHO) to be a consequence of a solo 130km breakaway effort and a big push to hold a 6 minute advantage on the last climb of the day.

I agree that limits need to be set and there has to be a threshold, it just seems somewhat arbitrary sometimes. Take EPO - it cannot be detected so your hematocrit level (red blood cell count) above a certain percentage is used as a reference. EPO is only one of many ways rbc count can be increased, training at altitude is another. Marco Pantani got caught by this - his rbc level was above the threshold so he was disqualified from the race. Since its an advantage to have a high rbc count, athletes train at altitude to get it as high as possible without going over the limit. Does someone with a 51% level really have such a huge advantage over someone with a 49% level? Short answer - no. But the limit has to be drawn somewhere so guilt by indirect association ensues.

This is a different issue to the Ullrich, Basso drug taking allegations (Ullrich has been sacked by T-Mobile I notice for failing to adequately clear his name) where riders have been found to be visiting a dodgy doctor for unspecified reasons. That is just daft as the doctor had been implicated previously.

I guess the point I am trying to make is two fold - are we 100% certain they are cheating or is it more a case of - well, you had above a threshold limit in your system so it will be assumed its there illegally and you will be stripped of your title and banned for 2 years, and secondly do these breaches actually give a performance advantage sufficient to win races that otherwise would not have been won?

Slightly off topic, one of the biggest differences between individuals is in genetics - it defines all of us and the differences between us. Genetic testing still has not hit the mainstream and associations with race and 'selection and eugenics' mean that it is still somewhat of a taboo subject to be discussed in terms of 'perforance advantage' but eventually it is going to surface as a factor. Then the cack really will hit the fan as it will be a human rights issue, a race issue and an ethical issue as to whether this information should or could be used to determine athletic ability or indeed any other attribute you care to mention. THis is not the same as 'designier babies', but more selection of existing individuals as particularly suited to an athletic endeavour as a consequence of their genetic makeup. It will be a factor in the future and I am not sure yet how it is going to be dealt with.

Cheery thought isn't it!

Steve.

 

[Noel]

Time will tell...
The B sample will no doubt reflect the result of the A sample but, as has been alluded to in previous posts, the increased testosterone/epitestosterone values are not exactly performance enchancing. Reading other reports he is taking medication for a thyroid problem as well as various painkillers for his soon to be replaced hip. Landis also had a few beers and a few shots of Jack Daniels to get over his poor performance on Stage 16.
I've an open mind about it all at present although I think LeTour / UCI / Phonak perhaps should've waited for confirmation on the B sample before going public and Pat McQuaid (UCI chief) should've taken a similar approach.
It'll be interesting to see what Paul Kimmage has to say on the matter in the Sunday Times this weekend.
No matter what the eventual outcome the TDF and pro-cycling in general will find it hard to recover from the adverse attention.

Noel