Lateral Sharpening Systems

[TheTiddles]

Does anyone here have some experience with the systems that use diamond stones moving laterally across the bevel of a chisel or plane blade, such as the Trend FastTrack? To me the principle seems sound but I don't see people going wild about it... anyone?

Aidan

 

[dchenard]

There are so many sharpening jigs out there, makes me laugh...

You don't need any of these jigs, a few minutes of instruction plus a bit of practice, and you can do it freehand. Very liberating.

I didn't dare trying to sharpen without a jig until I was "forced" to try it, there has been no turning back since.

DC

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Hi Aidan

I have seen the one you mention but not used it. My immediate thought was that it had a limited range, such as a few angles only. Also, diamond stones are not fine enough to finish on for plane blades.

Side sharpening is another matter. Your post caught my eye because I am just finishing up an article/review on the side sharpening technique and the Sharp Skate, a honing guide by Harrelson Stanley.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[David C]

I can see no logic in a scratch pettern that is parallel to the edge.

Scratches here would seem theoretically to encourage tip to snap off.

I made the dreadful and costly mistake of purchasing a side-skate, and have unfortunately failed to find any posssible logic or benefit in its use.

David Charlesworth

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

David

Interesting comments. I could, however, anticipate that you would hate the Sharp Skate. It is very different to everything else (with attendant pros and cons).

I would really love to hear your comments off-line.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[BrentB]

I have given some thought to side sharpening (google "side sharpening" to find my thoughts -- sorry I am a newbie and cannot include a URL) and would be very interested in reading David C's comments online.

Brent

 

[matthewwh]

Link URL Here to Brent's very methodical and comprehensive analysis (nice photography by the way).

Taking David's point about the parallel scratch pattern and Derek's regarding the coarseness of diamond stones I was going to suggest that grinding might be a sensible application for these systems, as it would be easy to see the parallel scratches being replaced by perpendicular ones when you come to hone with the blade the right way around.

Having read Brent's empirical results however, it sounds as though they are not much cop for that either; unintended and uncontrolled cambers, loss of squareness etc. By all accounts then, these side on sharpening systems seem to fall into the category of 'tool-like consumer products' rather than actual tools.

 

[David C]

Brent,

I have just read your masterful research on side sharpening.

My problems with the Sharp Skate are almost entirely to do with the guide (mechanics, geometry & clamping system) and reflect several of your comments.

Correcting a slightly off square grind or edge with an Eclipse type guide is easy with differential finger pressure.
Microbevels or slight increases of angle are also easy, with small projection changes.
Cambers of varying degree are relatively easy with the five, point finger positions.
Projections are easy to set on the Eclipse type.

None of these important tasks seem as straightforward with the Sharp Skate.

It seems that if the polish is sufficient, say half micron paste or paper, there is no theoretical reason why the edge should not be as good. My previous comments were aimed at the deeper sctatch pattern from diamond stones.

Best wishes,
David

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Matthew, I have read Brent's research on side sharpening, and made some comments to him at another time. Brent's work is thorough and easily replicated - the sign of a good scientific approach - BUT he begins from a faulty premise in this case, which affects much of his conclusions. Sorry Brent.

For example, there were a number of unintended effects of side sharpening, such as camber, and these may be explained as due to faulty technique. Brent, have you studied up on the technique advocated by Harrelson? Such as available in his DVD on side sharpening?

It is evident from Brett's comments about 'short verses long strokes' that he wants to apply his perspective of sharpening to side sharpening ala Harrrelson Stanley, and the latter is very, very different. Side Sharpening is designed for freehand use, and the Sharp Skate is designed to follow on from this. Brent is strong supporter of micro bevels. Harrelson is into full bevels, especially on Japanese planes and chisels. It is like comparing Apples with Oranges. There is a clash of ideology (and technique). The only way to really analyse what is happening is to do it from Harrelson's perspective.

I do not want to preempt much of the review/article I am writing, so I am not going into details here. It will be ready in a week (hopefully less).

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Chris Knight]

I don't think there is a problem with side sharpening. Most carving gouges are sharpened this way on the convex side and they have to be very sharp, yet withstand the high local pressures from a small edge (and usually only a part of it, being used on all sorts of woods. It's true I touch up gouges a bit more often than plane blades but that is as a result of a gradual blunting, not an abrupt blunting as one might expect if the edge had failed on a scratch.

 

[David C]

Chris,

Interesting point. Do you use leather strops much?

David

 

[Chris Knight]

David,
I do use leather strops with rouge (actually leather glued to shaped pieces of wood - slipstrops) to touch up the edges both after initial sharpening and in between sharpenings. I use the strops longitudinally rather than side to side, so that might help eliminate edge threatening scratches. Having said that, the sharpening process is always taken to a mirror finish in any case so any scratches would be extremely small.

 

[matthewwh]

Derek,

Thank you for your reply.

I freely admit that I have only considered side sharpening as an illogical adaption of traditional FAB sharpening, rather than a seperate discipline entirely. Perhaps I have been too hasty in dismissing it?

I look forward to reading your article.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

--- traditional FAB sharpening---

"FAB"?

What's that? I've never heard that term. Slainte.

 

[matthewwh]

Forward And Back (as opposed to side to side)

 

[David C]

On waterstones, with narrow chisels, I prefer JB.

Its quite fun inventing jargon. But no one understands a word untill it is made explicit.

My rather pathetic example means just backwards, thus avoiding the high probability of gouging the rather soft stones.

In fact I recommend just backwards to all my starting out students.

David

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Here in Oz we do it UD.

Which stands for Upside Down.

Way past my bedtime!

Regards frim Perth

Derek

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Forward And Back (as opposed to side to side)

Now that you've explained that odd initialisation to me Matthew, I have to say it's a method of sharpening that's infinitely inferior to my patented 'BAF' method, ha, ha--- ha, ha, ha. Slainte.

 

[David C]

TAF

contains the rather nice old word fro.

 

[Paul Kierstead]

contains the rather nice old word fro.

And here I thought it was only me that was fond of that word. It is nice to know at least someone else likes it!